automatico

A young guy wearing a 'high grade' replica may be able to pull it off. Probably need to stay with models under $10k retail. A middle aged/older guy with a 'high grade' replica can get by just about every time...unless he looks like a bum and drives a $500 car. A young guy with a blatant fake may be tagged as a poser...especially if they claim it is genuine. A middle aged/older guy with a blatant fake may be seen as not caring about watches, having a sense of humor, or got screwed on the watch. Replica watch rule #1: Tell the truth or be quiet, never claim a replica is genuine. Q..."Is that watch real?" A..."It must be if you can see it." All my replicas are fake.

http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/154835-rolex-152070-into-mbwmbk-case/

"I have a couple Citizen watches that are well used. The buttons have started to either not work at all, or skip over functions, etc... I have heard that the 'pushers' are worn out. Is there a diy way to fix them?" I have cleaned quite a few Citizen pushers and it usually works out Ok. After removing the caseback, look at everything carefully to see if anything appears to be bent, broken, or out of place. Remove the crown and movement being careful not to break the plastic spacer by letting a pusher pin etc catch on it. Cover the movement. Remove the keeper clips from the ends of the pushers and remove the pushers one at a time being careful not to lose anything (spring, gasket etc). Spring tension for some pushers is provided by the movement and some have springs inside the pusher tube. Do not mix the parts up...always put the pushers etc back where they came from. Many pusher clips are plastic and break when you r/r them. A supply house should be able to get the clips...order a few extra. Clean the pusher and parts in hot soapy water along with the case. Do not wash the inside of a case that has anything printed on the crystal or with a bezel, index etc mounted inside the case. Wipe the inside of the case with a soft cloth, then hot air dry it (hair dryer etc)...get all the lint out. Do not get the case hot enough to melt the crystal gasket etc. Clean the inside of the tube or hole in the case with a wooden pick of some sort. If the original gaskets are Ok you can probably reuse them. Lubricate the gaskets lightly with silicon grease (silicon 7 etc). Put all the pushers back together in the case and check to make sure they all work properly. Pushers with no springs should move easily and not bind at all. Sometimes watches with 'leaf springs' mounted on the movement to provide tension for the pushers will not work with dry or dirty pushers and this simple clean/lube project usually gets them functioning again. Put it all back together making sure all pushers are shoved toward the outside of the case. Make sure the pusher pins do not catch on any movement/spacer parts. Lightly lube the crown and caseback gaskets with silicon grease. Free advice... If you have to pay someone to do the work...it may be a lost cause as Citizens are not worth a whole lot in rough condition and the $$ could probably be better spent on another watch. example... I have a 'like new' (no kidding) titanium Citizen Eco-Drive chronograph on original bracelet that is doa and out of warranty...it is not worth fixing because it will not sell for much over $100 running. Imho, 'keeper' Eco-Drives are a losing proposition...$16 to $20 batteries (I have replaced quite a few Cit-Eco batteries), very few complete movements or parts available. I wear one quite a bit only because they are free...it's a long story. Same goes for Seiko Kinetics imho...except for the free part.

Like I said, I had $1275 in my last one and this was on the top edge imho. When you own one of these things, you are betting it will run as long as you want to wear it or long enough to sell it. Because of their spotty reliability (age related) and no parts, I call tuning fork Accutrons and rolex OQ 'light bulbs'. They can go from On to Off in the blink of an eye. The reality is they do not sell at high prices except in 'mahogany, chrome and glass' jewelry stores and internet 'boutiques'. It looks good so you should not have any trouble selling it.

The one in the picture looks to be gen-u-ine. They were very well made with solid (not hollow) gold mid links and use the same bezel, crystal/gasket as a sapphire DJ...the tube/crown are regular 6.0mm parts. The date parts/hands are the same as a 3035 and clasp parts are same as a DJ. Dials, extra links, and movement parts are hard to find. The catch is the older they get, the closer they are to circuit board or step motor trouble...look to pay $300 to $600 for a circuit board or step motor. I have owned a few over the years but am afraid of them because of parts prices. Last one I traded for was a tutone OQ with goldtone dial in October 2010, running fine with a full set of links in super nice condition...I wound up with $1275 in it. I traded it for a low mileage later model 6694 with original oyster bracelet and $600 ca$h. No circuit boards in a 6694.

TMG is right. "Fitment is no guarantee with the nicer Vietnamese cases." I'll say it again..."Fitment is no guarantee with the nicer Vietnamese cases." "Fitment is no guarantee with the nicer Vietnamese cases." "Fitment is no guarantee with the nicer Vietnamese cases." Here's why: F3 nailed it...high $$ cases are NOT perfect or consistent! ...'consistent' being the key word. This baffles me to no end because you can closely examine twenty $35 replicas with a caliper and every case will be exactly the same inside and out. I know this from experience because I bought a batch of cheapo steel case replicas to make 'sterile' mil-type submariner style watches. off topic: This is a losing proposition because by the time you buy a $20 sapphire crystal (mg is $3), remove the bezel insert, bead blast the case/strap buckle, remove the dial markers, paint the dial flat black, replace the markers/bezel insert, install a generic 7mm tube and crown, drill lug holes, install silicon straps with ss buckles etc, you are deep upside down in time and $$. All the Seagull ST16 movements were very reliable but some needed c/o.

'Tanks' for instance...cartier threatens to sue anyone who uses the term 'tank' in print ads on eBay etc when the 'tank' style watch was made by dozens of watch companies before cartier ever did. Since cartier makes most of their $$ by selling $200 quartz watches for $10k to a band of fools, they have to fight everyone who has a similar design in an attempt to keep their carticrap 'exclusive'. (I am trying to be nice)

I went the bargain price route and used a $120 DW 5513 case with 1520 and Yuki dial. This is Ok if you are cheap and handy...or 'know a guy'. Here's the way it went: 1...Install an oem spec case tube and crown. problem...DW case will not accept an oem spec case tube gasket between the case and tube because the gasket seat in the case is too small in diameter. If you use it as/is with no gasket, the crown will be too far from the case when screwed down. one fix...use a TC tube and crown or TC tube and genuine crown. The TC type tube has a flat mating surface (not tapered like oem) and you can use a small O ring between the case and tube. another fix...cut the shoulder on the oem spec tube to make a flatter mating surface...easy to do if you or someone you know has a lathe. and another fix...buy a cutter bit and mill the gasket seat out in the case. You will need a cutter bit and a milling machine or a bit and precision drill press...and some practice. A drill bit is not the way to go because the gasket seat needs to be flat, not tapered at the bottom. 2...Drill the lugs out to approximately 1.3mm. This is fairly easy to do but it is easy to screw it up and a good idea to practice on something else first. Use medium speed, lubricate the bit and if it stops cutting...change the bit. 3...DW crystal retainer rings and spring wire retainer bezels come from outer space. Get a 5513/1680 bezel kit from Clark's along with at least two of his #19 crystals. Why two? One to get it right with and one for the finished project or a spare. I usually get three when I find a crystal that fits because so many do not...GS did not, Clark's did. 4...DW 5513/1680 cases have 'pot belly' sides like a DJ and if you are extra tough and persistent...you can take time to sand the sides flat and repolish them. A LOT of work and a BIG chance to screw up. If you are super tough and persistent...you can sand and polish tapered edges on top edges of the lugs. Did I flatten the case sides and sand/polish tapered edges? Are you kidding? 5...You can reshape the crown guards if you want to, just be sure and do it before you install the case tube for the last time. You need to have the ct/crown handy so you can screw them into the case to eyeball the cg shape etc now and then. 6...The 1520 fits fine in the DW 5513 case and the 26mm oem spec Yuki dial does not mount tight against the dial seat in the case. What happens is the movement mounts solidly against a ledge inside the case and is held in place by the casing screws and the dial does not fit tightly up against the case. It looks like it does from the front but it does not. Does this matter? Not at all. Hopefully. The dial screws are the only thing holding the dial in place because since there is no contact with the dial seat, there is no clamping pressure applied to the dial from the casing screws. 7...The DW caseback has a gasket groove in it like oem but it is not as deep as oem and uses a flat section gasket, not a round section O ring like genuine. Is this Ok? Yes, but I would not trust it in deep water (10m). Why? I do not trust any of them. What is the fix? Cut the gasket groove deeper in the caseback to allow for a round section O ring...if the cb it thick enough, I did not check it. Is it worth the trouble to cut the cb gasker groove? Not to me. How much did I save? $400 or $500. Would I do it again? Already have.

"Simply roll your time forward closer to noon before you change the date, that will help to keep your date changing for a long time to come." Good advice. Swiss made Eta 2824/36 etc are made so if you try to set the date while it is getting ready to change...it will just flip over with no damage. It is still a good idea to change the date between 3am and 6pm though. Seagull ST6 used in many replicas has a plastic date flipper that will sometimes break if you try to set the date when it is getting ready to change. DG/NN will sometimes just go 'crunch' when the little quick set date flipper breaks...then it's time to make it go 'crunch' again by smacking it with a hammer.

I learned one thing the hard way...Frankenstein 1655/1675 using genuine movements are expensive. If I was going to make a 1655, I would start with the best cartel case/dial combo I could find. The DG GMT movement is a good choice but it may need c/o. Swisseta 2836 with chinese GMT modification is more realistic if you swap all the GMT parts over to a 2846 to slow the beat rate down. Probably also need a taller canon pinion etc so the hands will not be all crammed together. The GMT/1655 are sometimes a lot of work...1016 is much easier imho. Figure this out: A genuine 1675 with a complicated 1575 date/GMT movement and rotating bezel will go for $3500 to $4500 on average. The movement will go for $2000 to $2500. A 1655 with the same movement will go for $8000 to $12000. The movement will go for $2000 to $2500. That's a lot of $$ for a different dial and case. A genuine 1016 with a Simple Simon 1570 will go for about the same as a 1675. The movement will go for $800 to $1200. A $5 yard sale Timex is a good alternative...

Here is some short and sweet SS etc info: http://www.ssisintered.com/high-temperature-metal-materials.html My guess is many replicas are made out of the same stuff as cheap stainless flat washers etc.

Sorry if everyone already knows this... Original = spring wire bezel retaiiner with a plated bronze bezel, not a snap on steel bezel like 5513 etc. The crystal retaining ring is stainless steel. I do not know what replica bezels are made out of but the bronze bezels on genuine watches break or bend very easily. Stainless steel on a replica would be a lot better. I had a 6538 (back before they were worth much) and they are smaller than a 5513 etc.

OK

I had an older Wenger 'Swiss Military' watch apart a while back with: 'swiss made' on the box 'swiss made' on the manual 'swiss made' stamped on the outside of the caseback 'swiss' at the bottom front of the dial 'china dial' stamped on the back of the dial 'china' stamped inside the caseback 'china' engraved on the bracelet clasp cbp eta quartz movement stamped 'swiss parts, hong kong assembly' So...the eta 805.114 that retails for $7.95US must account for 51% of the value. Probably go for $3 each by the thousand. It also had a supposedly 'swiss made' renata battery...add another 30 cents. I seriously doubt this watch has ever seen switzerland...maybe they have a picture of the alps hanging in the HK factory to qualify it as 'swiss made'.

I tried http://selg.nu/support/1/ ...but got a message wanting a credit card # after putting my paypal pw in.

"I agree with your general premise, but the 1st Daytonas sold for much less than $1,200..." http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm

"This is my idea of a great rep! Great parts list and a 2846-2 engine." +1 "I think a watch like this is every bit as good as the original watch that Rolex put out 30-40 years ago." Imho it is pretty close to a 5513 with a 1520 if it seals against water and it looks like this one will... - GEN Rolex Crown and Tube 720/7020 - GEN Crystal T19 ...and the Eta movement takes the worry out of owning a 'vintage rolex'.

"You guys are very right I guess. These watch only hold value here in this forum. No one really would buy a rep for these money." Frankenstein vintage rolex (1016, 5512/13, 1680 etc) with genuine movements sell pretty good at NAWCC etc watch shows...under the table of course. No parts and high prices killed genuine 'vintage' rolex for me. 'vintage' = 1960s/1970s with 1530 base movements "I would never buy a gen 16610 cause the rep looks so good, especially a franken. Same for me if I was a modern watch guy. I always liked the 16600 SD though.

It looks fine! I bought a Yuki 5512 dial a couple months back and it was very well done except the luminous paste was a little bit ragged and did not lay flat. Does the luminous paste lay down smooth on your dial? It sure looks good in the pictures.

"...why would you part out a usable popular model? in my opinion, the whole is worth more than the sum of it's parts." The last slow set DJ I bought was $700. After adding a good genuine bracelet, crystal, case tube, crown, c/o, mainspring, gaskets, springbars etc I would have $1200 or $1300 in the watch and it might sell for $1500 on a good day = a lot of work for $200 or $300. If I take the same watch and stick the movement in a $120 DW case with a $140 Yuki dial and a TC crown set plus a Clark bezel assembly/crystal and a $90 replica bracelet, I will have about $1200 in a watch that will sell for $2000 with 'full disclosure'...and still have the DJ case and dial left to sell = about $1000 profit. This would be a 'low buck' example because I got a decent deal on the DJ and used a DW case, Yuki dial etc and can do it all myself. If you paid $700 for the DJ timehead but had to pay someone to do the c/o etc plus use a Yuki or Phong case, genuine bracelet etc the cost could easily double. I am not making watches to sell, just showing how genuine movements from valuable watches get swapped into Frankensteins. Btw...the DJ is still in one piece and will stay that way.

If HH remains dedicated to this project (5513/14 cases for now)...how about members (me included) who want a case give HH $100 deposit and when the cases are done, we go to the head of the line and get a small discount plus the chance to buy more than one case? I will take two. If it does not work out we lose the $$ but at least we tried. I would guess 30 to 50 need to ante up to make it worthwhile. Anyone who says they will pay and does not pay gets outed on the forum and will be last in line for a case at full price. Many of us have lost a lot more than $100 on cases so this is surely worth a shot.

One quick way to spot a replica DJ, OPD, Ex I etc clasp cap is it will usually have 6 adjustment holes where genuines have 7. Some replicas have very good coronets and are hard to tell from genuine.

"Did you make up those rules yourself?" Yeah, it is what I have gone by for 40+ years. I left out all the 'before the sale' stuff about shipping loss/damage etc that needs to be agreed on, it is a minefield in itself, especially shipping from one country to another. ...and then there is always the old "I did not get the watch!" (but they really did) etc, etc.

Trader rules... The 'money back' offer rights all wrongs and if it is declined, the buyer now owns an 'as is' watch by their own choice. MB offers often carry a time limit for good reason. If a partial refund is offered by the seller and the buyer accepts it...the buyer now owns an 'as is' watch by their own choice at a lower price. If the buyer ignores the MB offer and moves straight to asking for a partial refund, it is up to the seller to still honor the MB offer and/or negotiate a partial refund. If a partial refund is asked for by the buyer after the MB offer is declined...the buyer now owns the watch by choice and no reply is necessary unless the seller wants to negotiate. Since the watch in question did have a few undisclosed scratches, maybe shipping could be refunded by the seller if the MB offer is accepted (at least one way) but this is always up for debate. If the watch is accurately described and it turns out to be a case of Buyers Remorse "I don't like the watch", and the seller offers to take it back for a full refund...the buyer should eat the shipping both ways or at least one way. Test drives are not free and there is always the danger of shipping damage/loss and parts swapping (very hard to prove). This is why omega puts a dot of red paint between the case and caseback on new watches...to tell if someone has been screwing with the watch when it comes in for warranty work.

"you always make more $ in the vintage parts market. doubt you will make as much with their modern counterparts." True in my experience. Modern watch guys do not have 'fire in the belly' compared to vintage watch guys. Modern watches are basically 'status jewelry' while a vintage 5513/1680/1665/1655 is a 'badge of honor'...a hard to find/expensive 'insider' item. Many sapphire watch owners have never even seen an actual 5513/1680/1665/1655. Many below average to rough 1520/1570/75 powered AK/OPD/DJ etc are bought today for parts and the movement often ends up in a Frankenstein of some sort. A friend went to the watch shows at Daytona a couple weeks ago and he saw a few 'under the table' Frankenstein 5513/1680 and one 1655 by asking sellers about them. There are quite a few Frankenstein 5513/1680 around but genuine rolex 1575GMT powered Frankenstein 1655 are few and far between because GMT parts are near impossible to get...you usually end up parting out a 1675 to make one now. There were a lot of them 15 or 20 years ago made from 1675 with 1655 dial/bezel/hands etc but they were easy to spot because they always had 6mm crowns. The one 1655 he looked at was $4500 and all the 5513/1680 Frankensteins were over $2000. My guess is these watches are intended to be sold to 'insiders' inside the marts and then be resold to 'outsiders' as genuine outside of the marts (at gun shows, car shows, unregulated jewelry/watch shows etc). After they pass through a couple owners the 'history' is long forgotten. He said they appeared to have been 'made to sell', the 1655 being the best of the lot. 'Made to sell' = not up to RWG standards.