Chronus

I feel we should not encourage the use of the words "synthetic sapphire" for anything else than sapphire.

Better we stick on it, else we are likely to end up with a bunch of unconsistent advertisements and we shall also be unable to dispute, in case.

True.

It depends which watches you are looking for. There are lots of ETA-based watches for Franck Muller, Ralex, Omega, Breitling, etc. If it's PAMs it's a mixed bag, but still available. Remember that the ETA "Unitas" based watches need work on the bridges and are more expensive, and may be lower sellers than the Asian version which is half the price (with sapphire crystal front and back).

The PAM036, PAM127, PAM183, PAM 111 and others still have ETA movements, but the cheaper ones ($225 or so) don't have the bridgework. The more expensive ones tend to be $300.

Which particular model were you looking for ? I've been over and over their PAMs all the time the past few weeks.

I can confirm that both of mine (029 and 063) have the GMT functionality of the ETA 2893-2 used - that is, the GMT hand jumps from hour to hour when independently adjusted.

Remember this GMT function is not the same as a Ralex GMT Master or Omega Seamaster GMT where the hour hand is independently adjustable. The PAMs are not as useful for a GMT function as the Omega or Ralex, but great watches nonetheless.

Guess I missed out... why'd I have to sleep til the afternoon! I just got up...

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Good luck and hope it turns out well.

Maybe they stopped stocking it due to the problems with it?

I think it was TTK that said the letters on the bezel were falling off and this was happening with all submersible reps? The bezel has stuck on numbers or letters which are not glued on very strongly.

Ah, you say you are getting one.. which one?

I think I was the one that said in your thread (and others) that the factory has stopped making them. This information came to me via silix when I wanted to buy one through the group buy. I went and bought both straight away from Eddie, and they are good watches. Maybe I should buy some more to re-sell later too bad funds are low and there are so many watches I want!

Will you be getting one of these (or both) ?

I have come across a watch dealer who test the "sapphire" with some kind of electronic tester. The light goes Green for "sapphire" and Red for glass. It is VERY expensive to produce dome shape sapphire crystal, most likely your pam217 are using "synthetic sapphire".

BTW: Does it ready matter whether it is sapphire?

Sapphire is virtually scratch-proof, though not shatter-proof. Plexiglass and mineral glass will pick up scratches. The genuine watch has a sapphire crystal, so a lot of scratches on the crystal is a pretty obvious giveaway that it's a rep. Apart from anything you probably don't want scratches all over the crystal, making it harder to look at the time.

I would think that if the PAM127 has a genuine sapphire crystal, the same can be used on the 217.

you must be kidding...

you actually opened it...i am wearing my pam with deployant since i bought it...reason?...i haven yet understand how to open it!

I guess you didn't adjust the bracelet and just slipped it on...

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..........

Shipping for the first 3 watches is the same flat rate, so if there is space, throw in one of the silix-watch reps as well.. some of them are decent especially at that price. A friend piggybacked on one of mine and got a Ralex DateJust for 28 euros... he loves it and would not spend more on any watch, rep or genuine!

I think .... size is the same on both.

Joshua's is 40 mm excl crown (i think) and Andy's is 42.5 incl crown.

What are the sizes of the genuine watches? I'm pretty the larger size is 45mm, and the smaller is 42.5 or 43mm (not sure on this one).

The hour marker should be squared, not rounded and the crown should be a bit longer. IMO Andrew's is much closer. But darn Andrew, why the cheapy plastic movement retainer?

Is there any advantage to having a plastic movement retainer over a metal one, or vice versa?

Please would you put me in contact with that AD employee? I have lots of watches to sell to him at very good prices. I'll just leave him judge on whether they are fakes or gens.

The guy doesn't work for an AD anymore... maybe you sold him some watches ?

In the old days, reps probably didn't have sapphire crystals, and most people nowadays, when they think rep/fake, think of the cheapie junk you can buy on a street corner!

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

I got a two tone MBW sub that has solid gold midlinks, but plated end links and on the clasp. Finepics had a look at it, and as he works with gold all the time, confirmed that it is solid gold. He was also the first to say (in the old RWG) that Precious Time's gold was genuine solid gold in the midlinks.

Any comparison on the orange ?

I see that one is also available on an orange band with deployant clasp. I'd like both that and the bracelet if it's easy to change.

This should be simple enough, as you are testing if the advertising is correct.

Talk to the dealer you bought the watch from, and say you will test the sapphire crystal by trying to scratch it with a normal kitchen knife. If it is a sapphire crystal it won't scratch, in which case you will tell everyone that that particular dealer has the real thing. If it scratches, then he either replaces it with a watch with a sapphire crystal, or gives you a full refund as he has not given you what you paid for.

If the dealer hesitates, then he is unsure (or knows) whether the crystal is sapphire or not.

The test will reveal what it is.

Incidentally, the crystal that is commonly called sapphire in reference to watches, is made of corundum (a synthetic material), and it is 2nd to diamond in terms of hardness.

I was quoted under USD50 by silix-prime to change mineral glass to sapphire crystal for a PAM111H (Asian Unitas) that I got for a friend, and someone he knows worked at an AD and said there is no way a fake would use a genuine sapphire crystal (even though my friend told him it was a rep - no one believe him that it is a rep and it still has a recessed pin - not even in high end watch stores!).

Could be good, I had thought it was only 42.5mm or 45mm.

Due to not drop-shipping, he will have stock with him, but for obvious reasons, more of the popular watches. For the EU, no customs problems and quick delivery.

Anyone seen jos-nana's version? It doesn't use a plastic spacer ring to hold the movement, instead a nickel plated movement holder. Info says 40mm though. Looks good - anyone got it/getting it? How good is it? Better than the TWG 4th generation version ?

From what I understand their 212 is plexiglass? They replaced the crystal - front and back - for the 111H for a price of course, so hopefully for this one as well. 212 looks very accurate though. PAM047 looks good too but the crown says "OP" - don't think that exists on a real PAM like that. The genuine has a pusher for the split-seconds function, but you won';t find something like that in a rep.

Hopefully I'll have time this weekend to figure it out

The PAM047 also looks nice, but for obvious reasons, has no pusher in the crown. Instead it has the letters "OP"... are there *any* PAM crowns with this "OP" on any genuine Panerai?

Thanks for the info.

I'm a little confused over the 217 though, on the panerai website,

"Officine Panerai" writing isn't upside down, I'm not sure why everyone says it should be upside down!

http://www.panerai.com/s_special_editions...._categoria=4724

Or have OP screwed up?

I can only say in reference to the MBW two tone silver serti dial sub.

The end links are plated, and in the link that joins to the clasp, you can clearly see that stainless steal is plated.

Also on the wish-list are:

PAM187 with ETA 7753

PAM092 Arktos with Asian/ETA 7750 but without the bezel parts falling off!

On the way, or arrived are:

PAM001

PAM111H

PAM183

PAM192

PAM196