Ronin

Old time sworn to silence. 😉 @curiousbunny the dimensions of the calibers are in fact close, but the dial pie-pan dial and calendar alignments will make it challenging.

Exactly. 10yrs ago I think our Frankens could fool actual Rolex collectors because the vintage Rolex Market & Internet knowledge base hadn’t reached critical mass. I mentioned before, I go to a lot of GTGs pre-pandemic. The Frankens and eBay specials are showing up with no intent to deceive. It’s almost become a right of passage to show up with a questionable vintage Rolex. Case in point, there is always a 6542 available on eBay. Pretty amazing for such a rare watch 😉🤔 That said, I wouldn’t sweat the details as much these days. If you land on an aesthetic AND reliability, and in budget. Enjoy it.

Correct, the mid-case never changed throughout the 4 major revisions of the 6542. There were dial, bezel and insert changes over the years. Keep in mind, looking at pictures of 65yr old 'used' watches is not a good way to gauge things. I'd venture to say they have ALL spent time on the polisher, and with 65yrs of wear and tear I am sure no two will be the same. As far as clone movements are concerned, instead of trying to reverse engineer and make a replica/clone movement- I would much rather see an aftermarket attempt to build a moment platform that: 1. Matches alignment with crown/tube holes 2. Accept genuine/aftermarket calendar wheels 3. Accept genuine/aftermarket hand size (and with an ETA Option) 4. Have a mounting system that leverages genuine case mounting (and with a case clamp option) 5. Has accommodations for Genuine or ETA dial feet, or Pie-Pan/6542/6538 dials 6. I really don't care about BPH. No one is fooling anyone anymore... A reliable, plug-n-play movement(s) that allow reliable swapping would be ideal. I would almost think the thinner ETA-2892 would be the best 'base' for something like this. With it's thin 3.6mm height, just push it out from 11.5"' to Rolex 12.5"' ligne, and play with canon pinion height and proper spacers. There is definitely enough room top side for overlays, pie-pan dial's, GMT complications.

After a recent haul / buying spree, I have no fewer than 3 watch all exhibiting what I believe to be stem length issues. Although I have built many watches, I never had any of these issues with my builds. So from a diagnostic perspective any help in matching up these symptoms with too long vs too short or something else, please chime in and help me out, as I set out to fix them. #1 (Noob): Unscrewing the crown, the watch fails to go into manual winding position about 50% of the time. It just free spins doing nothing when it should be winding. I can usually jiggle it, or pull the crown out to setting and push back in to winding position. (too short, too long, something else like clutch on Rolex crown) #2 (GMF): Sometimes when pulling the crown out, it will go straight to 'date setting' position. You think you are manual winding, but instead you start flipping the date. (too short, too long, something else) #2a (GMF): Attempting to screw back down the crown is very difficult, especially with a full wind when fighting the mainspring. It is very difficult to get the Rolex crown to engage the tube threads and then 'clutch' and free spin when screwing down. #3 (Noob): When manually winding, it will occasionally make a loud CLICK like it is slipping or failing to stay engaged with the winding pinion. (too short, too long, something else) Thoughts? Anyone want to take a crack at this?

I think you are onto something. If China was pumping these out, I feel like they would have trickled into the TDs, Helenarou, Raffles. Instead we get things like the BP Factory approximations being sold. I have a different theory. Go back 15yrs or even more. I believe that the “Vietnam” versions/parts WERE the ultimate counterfeits that probably made a handful of people rich. The OG Frankenstein’s that made it through auctions successfully, etc. Things were low-key for a reason and even if they came out of China???, the trickery and large $$$$$$$ returns kept it underground’ish. As time went on, thanks to forums like this and VRF and general Internet expansion the jig is basically up. Remember characters like Orchi and when NDTrading hit eBay? That was sort of the turning point in my mind. That brings us to 2021. While you will always have “purists” or pi55ed off people who paid $$$,$$$ for a genuine vintage that never leaves the safe, or got scammed In the early days— I think most people just want the Aesthetic of the vintage Rolex with the Rolex logo on the dial. I have attended snobby GTGs and the Frankens are starting to show up. There is no attempt to deceive, and most people are truthful about the origins of their non-Rolex-Rolex. Most people are accepting. To hell with those who aren’t. 10yrs ago I used to obsess about crown guards, bezel inserts, dial text. (Things that only really matter in macro photos or under a loupe). Now, I stumble across cool dials that while not 100% accurate are simply nice to look at! Same with cases and inserts. Build/Buy what appeals to you, to the aesthetic you prefer. None of us are fooling anyone wearing our 6542, 6538’s out in public. I am all for Franken-Frankenstein’s these days. If I saw a 6542 in public I would ask them if they know “Phong, Ruby, or MQ” and watch their expression. 😉😃 So Vietnam/Vietnamese is just a label to differentiate the closest counterfeit vintage parts and not necessarily the actual origin source.

Like the 3xxx clone movements, the 4xxx clone movements all come from Noob and others dirty and dry. For the price TT quoted just for the movement, that will also come to you dirty and dry, rebuy the watch or current version. And yes all the clones movements are the same. There are two major versions/factories. SA an VR clones. VR clones are the better 3/4xxx. The current state of reps with clone movements gives you 4 choices, 3 if you want a modern Daytona with more accurate case. Buy an ETA based rep whenever possible. You can always swap in a Swiss quality movement. (Not Daytona) Buy your 3/4xxx clone. Cross your fingers, wear it till it breaks or wear only on special occasions. (These are not a daily driver IMHO) Buy your 3/4xxx clone based and service it. Buy TWO. Buy a backup. If the Rolex rep really speaks to you. Just buy a spare. Unless you you can do #3 yourself, #2 and #4 are your best bet. 😕 BTW. You can find the movements on eBay most of the time. I had a 3136 clone GMT implode in a Noob, bought a replacement movement on eBay. Here is one for an outrageous $550 on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/N4130-movement-for-daytona-chronograph-function-new-/313486479556 The 3xxx clones go between $120-$200. VRs at a premium over SAs Edit to add. Yuki started the clone movements trend, and I am not sure if his stands alone or is/influenced the SA VR versions. ?

Yeah, that looks fine to mine. Not sickly yellow, or otherwise. The blue fade is not uncommon depending on how the black paint was derived. I have a bezel insert from a 1665 that faded to an awesome blue from black. Conversely they fade toward brown. I wouldn’t overthink this one.

@curiousbunny sounds like this is what you want. https://tempus-machina.com Me too! 😃

I think the opposite. I think they were too problematic for the average rep buyer. Like I said, I have two of them and they both needed work. Once fixed up they are the best bang for the buck perhaps. I think people probably purchased them, expected them to be “grab and go” which they are not. He didn’t want the hassle.

Don’t use bleach! As Freddy said. If you are hell bent on lightening it you can try Denture Cleaner or go to a beauty supply store and get creamy peroxide. Although a vintage computer trick Google Retro-Brighting. Maybe a baking-soda paste also.

I think there is probably a optimal middle ground there. Yes, too snug, especially on folded bracelets could introduce ’actual’ stretch or widening of the seams. Similarly, more friction under flex, like pressing harder on a knife. More friction, but less often. Too Loose and floppy, jiggly+ dirt will accelerate pin wear. More movement, more wear, more often. (Case in point lady’s Rolex’s see the most wear as they tend to wear them super loose.) Find the Goldilocks zone, proper fit, and wear should be reduced. I think the key takeaway is that it really isn’t stretch as it is pin wear. Minimizing that wear on the pins is the best bet on preserving.

They are completely different watches. The J-Time has a thinner case, better centered crown tube, and Genuine like construction of the Bezel. (I can make gen Crystal and Gen-like Bezel fit) The Trusty/BP has a thicker case, off center crown, and totally different Bezel/crystal construction. The Trusty doesn't come close to genuine looking in my eye. ... but it will probably be more reliable.

I think you are confusing the use of 'cartel'. It is a meaningless term that simply indicates Chinese Volume Replica TD's. All of the dealers basically have access to the same watches/factories and the same prices. However, there are different versions from different factory's (eg. NOOB, BP, VSF, etc.) and certain TDs may prefer a certain factory. Moving past the cartel (I hate typing that), you get into the Vietnam and Craft stuff that more closely mimicks 1:1 vintage Rolex. For example the going rate for a complete Vietnam 6542 with 1035 movement will still set you back $8000 and the 1035 movement will probably be crap. The J-Time is different, I have 2 of them. They are actually built to order. The Trusty Time is most likely BP factory or whatever factory similarly turn our "Tiger Concept's"... The J-Time, being "built to order" is fine/better if you know how to handle, fix, further modify. Out of 2, my Black Dial 6542 had Hand alignment issues. The hour and minute hand needed reinstalled by me. My White Dial 6542, I can see the Crown Tube is at an angle, and the stem length causes some issues. Also, the J-Time has lots of sharp edges. I ended up "softening" the bezel coin edge with a diamond file and the lugs. (The lugs still need reshaped in my opinion). I also removed the bezel to fix the spring-wire to add more tension. The Trusty (BP?) will probably be a better grab and go as it looks more like a Homage turned Replica... Just be prepared. It is rare to buy a replica and have everything just work.

Yes Genuine is 47.4mm - lug to lug JTime is 48.4mm - lug to lug Lug 'Hole' to Lug 'Hole', oddly is flipped Genuine is 43.9 Hole to Hole JTime is 42.8 Hole to Hole You are not wrong. This optical appearance you are seeing it clear. JTime is 1mm longer and the bracelet is pulled in 1mm. Below is JTime with a Genuine C&I bracelet. You can see the profile & length difference. This is exaggerated by the C&I's end-links being stubbier. It is still a pretty good watch and these lugs could be reshaped to fix the issue.

A DG3804 will usually have a proper DWO for Rolex 15xx dials. I did a 1675 years ago with a Gen Case, Gen Dial, BUT with a DG3804. I used the stock DG3804 movement without custom DWO without issue. The DG3804 I used came out of a "Chronotac" GMT Homage watch. At the time, the 3804's Ofrei was selling had a different DWO so YMMV. You also have the Hangzhou 6460 Automatic GMT Movement DATE at 3.00 ETA 2836-2 GMT Clone - option. HR sells one with proper DWO - https://helenarou.com/hangzhou-6460-automatic-gmt-movement-date-at-300-eta-283646030028362.html So that begs another question, is the date window position the same on a 6542 as the 1675. Going off the fact they both use a Tropic 116, me thinks so. 🙂 ...and yet another question in building a 6542 out of a Cartel base, would the 'pan' genuine style 6542 dial be a mistake vs getting a flat dial-feet style dial say from a 1675?

It is my understanding that "wear it loose" actually accelerates wear and tear on the pins. (Seen especially in woman's DJ Jubilee bracelets, who tend to wear watches as loose jewelry). I think logic goes something like this: The stretch is not really stretch, it a thinning by wear of the pins in the hollow links. As the pin thins, this creates more space and the impression of stretch. Get the pin thin enough and it will bend making the stretch seem even worse. Eventually, the pin wears through and snap, the bracelet breaks. Combine loose, with dirt, and the excess movement of a loose watch flopping around on the wrist, and that metal on metal wears through faster. So, if this is the case, wearing a vintage watch "properly" fitted and snug, should decelerate the wear and tear on the pins that give cause stretch. Here is a perfect example of the wear on the pins giving the illusion of stretch. In reality, the links now have more "slack". Edit to add, you also get wear through on the links. It is blurry in the photo, but look at the mid-links, you can see those have also lost material. A double whammy...

@Nanuqis that dial true gilt relief? And Dark Lord?

By chance, any pics of Mary's bracelet?

😳 Wow @Nanuq I think I can continue to wear mine. :)

Thanks gang. So would you guys wear my above with the current stretch levels? Especially my favorite 6215? These are all on Gen watches. I have to imagine, that even if one of the links wore completely through, it would bind and not necessarily fall off my wrist? I probably shouldn’t drive with my arm out the window though :-). One more thing, has anyone used heard of rolliworks.com ? They claim to be experts in bracelet restoration.

Here are some photos. The 6215 for my Gen 1675 is the most comfortable bracelet I have ever had. I am fearful it will break. Thoughts on these? I just realized there are more links tucked into the clasp-- as most of these are Micro-Adjusted inwards to shorten them for my 6.8" wrist...