not happy with how watchmaker treated my MBW

[horologist]

I recently bought a MBW with an eta mvt from a reputable dealer on this forum and was very happy with the deal.  It was absolutely a joy to get it.

 

My spark came to an end when I brought it into my watchmaker for a service and noticed that it was running too fast after 3 days of receiving it.

 

Went back and he timed it and the next day the stem fell out.  Went back again and said something about the pin that hold the stem in place fell out of place and he then was hitting it on his work bench with the aim to put it into place.  I was terrified with what I saw.  I said that I wasn't happy with what he was doing and his reply was" that it is only a copy and quite personally, I throw these into the rubbish  if it were mine".

 

How !@#@# ignorant!!!! and what should I have done.  I took it back from him telling him not to worry about it out of fear impulse that if he could have caused further damage to my clark insert etc.  He is one of those credited watchmakers that everyone in town brags about with all his certificates from the horological institute etc, but it meant nothing to me with what I saw and received.   I am now left with a watch that I cannot use.  What am I to do??

[danielv2000]

I think these "watch makers" don't realize the value of our watches. Most people think "canal street $25."

I had a similar experience. I was referred to someone locally a few years ago. I handed him 2 watches. I only wanted water pressure testing. He understood these were reps (a MBK 1665 with gen crystal and insert and BK GMT II with gen Pepsi insert). He said to come back the next day. I said okay. He took both watches and just tossed them into a drawer! I said to be careful. He answered they were not real. I said they are as real as the shitty watches he sold in his shop and cost twice as much if not more. I took my watches and left.

Best solution is to use the modern here. There is risks, shipping, etc... But sometimes, that's all we have.

[Erict719]

I had simpler experience but I sit there are wait so they wouldn't do too much.

These dumb aas can't even tell its a rep until they open the case then they start saying stuff.

he then tell me the crystal look off, the watch just look werid.

I told him its a gen crystal insert n crow.. All the things u said are off are all gen. Then he just shut up

[Rolexman]

Welcome to the world of snob watchmakers.

[ogladio]

This is why to use the forum watchmakers

[ceocorona]

This is why to use the forum watchmakers

 

+1. Unless you know your local watch smith its not worth the trouble

[GarrettP1]

When I take a rep to local watchsmith, I explain to him about the watch.

I'll tell him how I sourced the movement, the dial, etc.

Usually they are impressed with the effort that goes into it.

 

There is a retired watchmaker near me who was Rolex certified during his professional years.

When I brought him an Explorer II he was surprised that he couldn't tell it was a rep until he disassembled it.

 

The only reps he had encountered before were the very shoddy ones.

 

Most watchsmiths have no idea about how deep our underground hobby runs.

[JoeyB]

 

that it is only a copy and quite personally, I throw these into the rubbish if it were mine

 

 

 He took both watches and just tossed them into a drawer! I said to be careful. He answered they were not real. 

 

When all is said and done, the bottom line is that our reps are just that, replicas. Nothing more. They are copies, fakes, knockoffs, not the real thing. You can spend $3000 using mostly genuine parts, build a franken,  and it still is not a genuine 'Rolex'. The only place you can sell one is to someone who wants a replica. And only a very few of us would pay $1000 or more for a replica.

So, they're not snobs, they are realists.  

 

That said, I'm not goofy enough to pay $6,000 or more for a watch that I can buy/build/mod for under $500 that the 'experts' can't tell is a replica. This is where it comes in for our community. Everyone here 'fits' from the $100 'noobmariner' to the several $thousand 'franken'. Each of us chooses what is 'best' for ourself. And our community even has expert watchmakers who will service our watches with no issue, and likely better than the local guy who doesn't have a clue what we just handed him.   

 

With an ETA or other Swiss movement the local guy passes up business, and making money. That's up to him. With a 21j movement it's likely more trouble for him than it is worth. For under $25 you can remove the movement, hit it with a hammer, and install a new movement with limited skills and tools and all the help ever needed from members here. After all, the worst that can happen is you screw it up, and if it needed service, it was screwed up already. The first time is scary, the 5th time is fun, the 50th time is just a pain in the 6. 

 

We are special people here who make a silk purse from a cow's ear, and do it quite well. We learn and do, and have those who can do for us if needed. We have more options than anyone. We have made the best of watch ownership right here. 

[Big Dazza]

Very well put JoeyB

[blue.]

An interesting topic I have been thinking about since I bought my first MBW Explorer!

 

No doubt, reps are a very special hobby. Special in all its facets, meaning that the topic is not discussable with everyone, everywhere.

There are a "handful" of people who can understand this specific watch collecting, modifying etc. area.

 

Each of us has different motives for buying a rep or building a franken and that makes our community diverse and interesting.

Some of us feel a joy possessing a timepiece that comes from a significant era, a watch model that has its fame from being used in inspiring events, explorations, expeditions ... A timepiece that is no longer produced, something of ideological value and of really high value if we talk about the genuine version of it.

 

Others feel much closer connected to the historic heritage that a watch model resembles and on top of that are "rebuilding" it themselves, which is of an enjoyment and little adventure for itself.

 

Back to topic. As someone who does not know personally any "trustable" watchmaker in may geographical area and have been scared seeing watchmakers not being very carefull with a +36 year old Seiko ... I simply do not trust every watchmaker in my area. Of course I see it as vital to first get to know that person with some small talk, look over his abilities and somehow see what he/she (yes, saw an old watchmaker lady in one AD here) had done in terms of Service for other clients.

 

But when it comes to reps, no way (with some exceptions) that some watchmaker would take seriously our reps and would work on the equally carefull.

There are probably two options when it comes to a movement service or repair:

 

1. Remove the movement by your own and hand it over to the watchmaker (talking about ETAs, Sellitas etc. no rolex clone movements). I think the abilities to disassemble a movement from the case, crown, hands and dial are not that much (one would need the screwdrivers, case back opener and hands remover).

 

2. Send the whole watch to some of our community watchmakers and modders that have an excellent reputation. The only possible problem I see is the shipment, better to first ask if they are in your area CONUS, EU, etc.

 

Good luck!

[horologist]

When all is said and done, the bottom line is that our reps are just that, replicas. Nothing more. They are copies, fakes, knockoffs, not the real thing. You can spend $3000 using mostly genuine parts, build a franken,  and it still is not a genuine 'Rolex'. The only place you can sell one is to someone who wants a replica. And only a very few of us would pay $1000 or more for a replica.

So, they're not snobs, they are realists.  

 

That said, I'm not goofy enough to pay $6,000 or more for a watch that I can buy/build/mod for under $500 that the 'experts' can't tell is a replica. This is where it comes in for our community. Everyone here 'fits' from the $100 'noobmariner' to the several $thousand 'franken'. Each of us chooses what is 'best' for ourself. And our community even has expert watchmakers who will service our watches with no issue, and likely better than the local guy who doesn't have a clue what we just handed him.   

 

With an ETA or other Swiss movement the local guy passes up business, and making money. That's up to him. With a 21j movement it's likely more trouble for him than it is worth. For under $25 you can remove the movement, hit it with a hammer, and install a new movement with limited skills and tools and all the help ever needed from members here. After all, the worst that can happen is you screw it up, and if it needed service, it was screwed up already. The first time is scary, the 5th time is fun, the 50th time is just a pain in the 6. 

 

We are special people here who make a silk purse from a cow's ear, and do it quite well. We learn and do, and have those who can do for us if needed. We have more options than anyone. We have made the best of watch ownership right here. 

 

 

Very valid points!!!  HOWever:::

 

The psychology of a small mind is that if the label "Rolex" was not on dial and some other label was on it instead, I am sure that the attitude of this watchsmith, technician,brain surgeon, Rocket Scientist or whatever one calls him or himself would be far different.  Suppose I took in a $300 Tissot with the same grade Eta mvt to the same watchsmith with 20 certificates on his wall, then I am sure that he would have treated it with far more respect.  Replica or not is only in the small minds of those that cannot see outside the square of just a label.  If you have a frankenwatch with a high quality eta mvt, then that is still a good quality watch of similar standard if not better than that of  the Tissot in mention, regardless of what labels are on dial or mechamism inside.  A silk purse or sows ear argument is irrelevant here.  Some frankenwatches are pretty good when considering that they have been worked on as a custom job where more time and attention would be put into in comparison to the real McCoy, similar to a 1964 Mustang that has been rebulit with leather seats, walnut intereior, new zinc plated panels( nor original to the car)  etc, as opposed to the cheap iron rust prone panels and vinyl interior it first came out from the factory.

 

The moral here is that watchsmith has 2 choices;

he either,

 

(1) takes the job for a nominal fee and works on it in an ethical manner

 

or

 

(2) can shrug his shoulders and say" Sorry I do not work on replicas"

 

SIMPLE!!!!

 

if he choses to take on the job and treats it like something he found in the gutter as opposed as if it were a Tissot, then, he has no work ethics and I would put on my running shoes and not even have a timex repaired by him regardless of if he was made an OBE in the watch industry!!

 

One more note is that all timpieces require service regardless and do not need to be screwed up in the first place for this to happen.  Surely a Patek Calatrava is not immune from this!!

 

Most of us here are all over the world and ideally, I would always use a watchsmith here as opposed to some of the "REALISTS" locally, In practise, it has not been worth the trouble that I had with customs and sending overseas just for a service and the way some of the cutsoms officers in my country are, it defeats the purpose altogether.. 

[highoeyazmuhudee]

it doesnt matter if its a preceived cheap piece fit for the "rubbish", its still someone elses property that you treat with respect, the customer is gold. i wouldnt be bringing my genuine $19 casio to him with that attitude. there are plenty of watchmakers on this board that understand our hobby and would never damage your watch with disregard, keep it in the family.

[JoeyB]

 

The psychology of a small mind is that if the label "Rolex" was not on dial and some other label was on it instead, .  A silk purse or sows ear argument is irrelevant here.

 

 

But the "label" is the point. Labeling any product other than what it really is makes it a fake. That is an attempt to make it a silk purse.

 

...similar to a 1964 Mustang that has been rebulit with leather seats, walnut intereior, new zinc plated panels( nor original to the car)  etc, as opposed to the cheap iron rust prone panels and vinyl interior it first came out from the factory.

 

But the body and the motor are still a  genuine 1964 Mustang. And the vehicle's worth is far less than an all original/restored, numbers matching car. There are companies that make Corvette bodies from the `50s and `60s that you can put on a newer Corvette frame. It is actually better than the original, but it is still not a genuine `50s Corvette. 

 

I do agree, as I said, the watchmaker is passing up making money. 

[gavidoc]

I agree with JoeyB. It is in the label. So the replica might be worth more than the Tissot but the difference is the Tissot is a licensed product of the Swatch Group. Your high end or even MBW replica is just that. A fake.

 

Sure most watchmakers will view a replica as a $25 piece of trash but it still doesn't make it right to treat your property as something of insignificant value since that is how he views it. To that point, why try to find a watchmaker who can work on it outside of someone aware of the real depths of the replica market? To majority of people outside this community, even if the thing cost you $500 it's no better then a $30 quartz based replica you get on a street corner and will thus be treated as such.

[Rolexaddict]

Watchsmithes...watchmakers... all these are small limited brains and narrow spirits,

especially Swiss, these people are surrounded by the mountains they never see the horizon, thats why they are as they are

Posers, just remember, watches are simple mechanical objects, no mystic

 

just kidding  

 

I am a watch plumber

 

[martijnp]

When all is said and done, the bottom line is that our reps are just that, replicas. Nothing more. They are copies, fakes, knockoffs, not the real thing. You can spend $3000 using mostly genuine parts, build a franken,  and it still is not a genuine 'Rolex'. The only place you can sell one is to someone who wants a replica. And only a very few of us would pay $1000 or more for a replica.

So, they're not snobs, they are realists.  

 

That said, I'm not goofy enough to pay $6,000 or more for a watch that I can buy/build/mod for under $500 that the 'experts' can't tell is a replica. This is where it comes in for our community. Everyone here 'fits' from the $100 'noobmariner' to the several $thousand 'franken'. Each of us chooses what is 'best' for ourself. And our community even has expert watchmakers who will service our watches with no issue, and likely better than the local guy who doesn't have a clue what we just handed him.   

 

With an ETA or other Swiss movement the local guy passes up business, and making money. That's up to him. With a 21j movement it's likely more trouble for him than it is worth. For under $25 you can remove the movement, hit it with a hammer, and install a new movement with limited skills and tools and all the help ever needed from members here. After all, the worst that can happen is you screw it up, and if it needed service, it was screwed up already. The first time is scary, the 5th time is fun, the 50th time is just a pain in the 6. 

 

We are special people here who make a silk purse from a cow's ear, and do it quite well. We learn and do, and have those who can do for us if needed. We have more options than anyone. We have made the best of watch ownership right here. 

Well said Joey

[sgtguk]

Joey I couldn't have put it better mate 

 

I'll also offer another viewpoint on this from recent experience with a local  'Swiss' watch maker, so I take my Gen SmP in for a bezel swop and he gives me a price to do it, great, not cheap by any stretch but it's getting sorted and he's an approved Omega service centre, tells me he loves the new 8500 movement and how his tech's are trained to strip it blah blah blah, calls a few days later to say it's done, all good    

 

So as I have a few pieces in the box I don't really look at the piece for a few weeks then I notice that the insert is off (about a mm) to one side and is not aligned insert to bezel, not centralized if you like, no biggie just needs an adjustment and I'll drop it off to them to do it. I took the piece back in and quite politely asked for it to be rectified no rush etc etc, all I got was a look of astonishment from the watchmaker   and he said 'it's not much out, I wouldn't worry about it, not really a problem is it'   this watch new is over a couple grand and isn't a beater either, the guy is supposedly approved by Omega to repair their watches and was bragging earlier how accurate their work is in his shop, swiss quality ya know! 

 

Well needless to say I informed him of my intentions with regards to the watch and his anal passage and he then decided that the insert was indeed off a little and could be aligned asap, after and additional 3 visits back to him after leaving it with him I still have a misaligned bezel/insert, first time the insert was still off and very stiff to turn bezel, 2nd attempt still off and bezel nearly fell off, after picking up the last time insert is still off but bezel is moving as it should at least, at this point he won't be seeing me again.........ever   I'll find another watchmaker for my Gens !

 

My point is that it doesn't matter whether its rep or Gen you will find watch repairers who don't care      

[horologist]

I agree with JoeyB. It is in the label. So the replica might be worth more than the Tissot but the difference is the Tissot is a licensed product of the Swatch Group. Your high end or even MBW replica is just that. A fake.

 

Sure most watchmakers will view a replica as a $25 piece of trash but it still doesn't make it right to treat your property as something of insignificant value since that is how he views it. To that point, why try to find a watchmaker who can work on it outside of someone aware of the real depths of the replica market? To majority of people outside this community, even if the thing cost you $500 it's no better then a $30 quartz based replica you get on a street corner and will thus be treated as such.

 

I have never denied the fact that the MBW is a fake.  I have owned both genuine and replicas, so I have never pretended one from the other to be what they are not.  The point is that even a $30 quartz replica should be treated with dignity and respect as much as if it were a calatrava as the services are provided at a cost to the customer.  If the service of a calatrava was $5000 and the service to a $30 quartz was $50, then you expect them both to be treated with respect. Period!!!!!

 

I work in a panel beating restoration garage and we have restored Bentleys, Mustangs, DB3 Aston Martins, Jaguars and even a 1950's MG  in all the 30 years that I have been there.  We also get insurance work from ordinary accidents where we get a lot of old rust buckets, but we do no tell the customers of the rust buckets to dump their cars to the smelters, nor do we kick them in the doors because they are not in the same league as the Bentley  We also  get the Chrysler 300 with Bentley Grills.  Now that is also a fake by the arguements put forward here, so I should treat it as a piece of trash because of the wrong label on it as of course it is not a bentley

[automatico]

"...he then was hitting it on his work bench with the aim to put it into place." 

 

Dildos like this are the reason I learned to work on them myself.

 

 

"He took both watches and just tossed them into a drawer!"

 

I was in a repair shop a few years ago and a customer brought a tutone rolex oysterquartz in for a battery. The 'second chair' Gomer repair guy was busy so he made

out a repair ticket, handed it to the customer, pitched the watch three or four feet onto another workbench and told the customer to come back in a few hours.

The customer (getting red in the face) said: What's the matter with you, you crazy son-of-a bitc#?"

The Gomer repair guy (also getting red in the face) said: "Nothing, it's a $20 fake."

The customer said "The hell it is, I paid $3000 for that watch, give it back!"

The Gomer handed it back and told the customer "You sure got screwed on that one."

After the customer stormed out the door I told the Gomer it was indeed a genuine rolex OQ. The Gomer said "Bullshi*, you don't know any more than he did, rolex never made a quartz watch."    

 

 

These dumb aas can't even tell its a rep until they open the case then they start saying stuff."

 

There's no cure for a major case of the dumbass.

 

 

"I simply do not trust every watchmaker in my area."

 

"after and additional 3 visits back to him after leaving it with him I still have a misaligned bezel/insert, first time the insert was still off and very stiff to turn bezel, 2nd attempt still off and bezel nearly fell off, after picking up the last time insert is still off but bezel is moving as it should at least, at this point he won't be seeing me again.........ever  I'll find another watchmaker for my Gens !"

 

Some of the worst work I have ever seen came out of AD stores with 'certified technicians'.

Many are butchers.

[horologist]

 

There's no cure for a major case of the dumbass.

 

Some of the worst work I have ever seen came out of AD stores with 'certified technicians'.

Many are butchers.

 

Amen, !!!  automatico your posts have always hit the nail on the head in bulls eye style.  One butcher working at an AD scratched the fu$% out of my dial on my 1680 submariner when my minute hand fell off after a service, as  he seemed to be [censored] off that he had to open it just to put the hand back on,, which is why I resorted to a replica.  True, there is no cure for dumbass.

[Rolexman]

It's not about the watch. It is about the profession. It should not matter what emblem is on the dial. It is about respecting and loving the mechanics no matter the brand. So I disagree with Joey. A good watchmaker takes more joy out of a fixing a broken, beaten watch than servicing a new watch.

[JoeyB]

I like a good debate, and this is one. We can certainly agree to disagree! Rolexman, I understand and appreciate what you are saying, but it is from the heart of someone who obviously really cares. That, unfortunately, is not 'reality'. 

 

I think it is all about the watch, and certainly the emblem, which is why we spend what we do here to get that emblem.

 

So, let me ask, would you take counterfeit/forgery Euros to service my watch? 

[Dizzy]

I honestly would have slapped him in the side of the head and taken my watch back. Looks like he screwed up your keyless works and banging it on the desk? I would have flipped out on him. I admire your patience.

Dizz.