automatico

Sector quartz ADV2500 made in April 1986 (stamped inside caseback). I know, I know...quartz watches have no 'soul' and don't last long.

"Why is This Watch Worth $312,000?" Maybe because it counts off the hours and minutes same as a $300 Citizen Eco-Drive minute repeater.

"it's only when dealing with stuff like exotic hair springs that the movement can be considered to be superior to the regular version." As for relax...a regular hairspring probably costs $1 and the high grade hs with overcoil is probably $10 or less. I bought a new 'balance complete' for a 1570 a few years ago and it was a little over $100 retail. No telling how much they are now with the "No parts for you!" policy. 'balance complete' = balance wheel, hairspring, balance staff, roller etc ready to install

"Do you know if all DJ cases had drilled lug holes? I too am looking for a DJ gen case as mine is a Sh!tinerand case with no drilled lug holes and a modified fake caseback. Not sure which case number goes with the DJ though." Acrylic crystal steel and tutone DJs had holes...slowset and QS. Some solid gold acrylic QS models have solid lugs...I had an 18k 16018 a few years ago with no holes. Early 16200 etc sapphire DJ (starting 1986/1987) had holes and later models do not, so sapphire DJ with or without holes is correct. No need to worry with the serial number if you use a bracelet on a replica case. Do not know the exact date when the holes went away, probably around 1997 or so. From TRF... "sapphire model no hole case. the serial number is "U" and would make it a 1997"

I do not know much about bootleg DVDs but I have seen them for sale at local flea markets. After reading your post last week, I asked a couple 'dealers' about them this weekend. They do not give out much info. They come in 3 versions: 1...'Screeners' aka 'DVD Rips' = copies of demos sent out for reviews etc...may have recurring or permanent onscreen messages "Property of Brand X Productions" etc. 2...'TS' (telesync) = Picture recorded with camera mounted on a tripod and sound from the projector, FM etc. Picture/sound quality may be pretty good. 3...'Cams' aka 'drivebys' = hand held cameras with good or bad picture and sound...most are trash. Read this (and the links) and you will know a lot more than the guys selling them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R5_(bootleg)

Early genuine submariners did not have the O ring under the inner bezel ring...they depended 100% on the clamping force of the inner bezel ring to squeeze the crystal against the case neck. The O ring came later, probably to cut down on corrosion under the inner bezel ring next to the crystal as much as extra sealing. The crystal should never need glue of any type to make it seal. If the crystal fits the case Ok and the inner bezel ring is loose...the problem is with the inner bezel ring...as long as the crystal and case are OEM spec. The O ring will not help much until the inner bezel ring fits correctly. 'loose' inner bezel ring = you can pry it off with fingernails/sharpened 'popsicle' stick etc inner bezel ring = the bezel ring that clamps the crystal to the case outer bezel = the rotating bezel

Free advice is worth what you pay for it. Two things to consider... If you scrimped and saved for two or three years to save $8000 and had it in your hand...would you blow it on a watch? If the answer is No (or you have doubts)...skip the watch. Something else...if the watch is $8000 today, what will it sell for in a couple months if you have to sell it quick to get some emergency ca$h? "Βuy a rep and baptize it GEN. Don't buy if you cannot pay cash at least 3.500$" Good free advice!

The trademark belongs to Dixmont Guangzhou. http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Dixmont_Guangzhou_Watch_Company Picture of Nanning and DG trademarks...the movements look alike. http://www.pmwf.com/Phorum/read.php?4,73207,73418

I remember when a superfine! (but slightly burned out) gf and I used to listen to Rush on a pair of Magneplanar MG-I speakers. You had to run them with an amp big as an arc welder because they were so inefficient. I still have the early Rush albums in like new condition as I played them only one time to dub them onto a casette. First live rock concert I attended was The Searchers and The Zombies (August 4, 1964 iirc). It cost $4. Now the superfine! gf is looong gone and I'm burned out. All that's left is the ringing in my ears.

"Breaking up a gen to build a rep? Just listen to that for a few seconds. Is this hobbie getting a bit out of hand?" Nope. I have parted out a lot of modern (mostly quick set) R-brand swiss watches. It does not bother me at all as they are just 'machine made crap for the masses'. Modern swiss watches are fair game imho. I will not part out solid gold case American made Hamiltons etc and I bought quite a few at scrap prices when gold was around $400/troz. I can not afford them now though.

"I know, it's a dirty word... As a company, I think they have well and truly lost their way..." I agree. Relax watch co has no friends because they do not want any. A relax AD friend told me years ago that relax watch co sees their customers as fools to be screwed out of their $$ and they want no personal contact with them at all. I have to agree with the AD from what I have seen and read. I remember about 20 years ago when I had a question about a particular relax watch and the AD called relax in NYC and got one of their old timer watch guys on the phone for me to talk to. The watch guy also had the same watch and told me what I needed to know. If the AD tried that now...they would probably pull his franchise and take him to court for some silly reason. Groupies! Stuff like this always makes me grin: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=96211 "I have an invicta, I bought it on sale at tj max for $60 bucks, for some reason it gives me a different feeling than when I put on my GMT II C TT, hmmmmmmm.......that feeling is of emptiness I do believe." It's all in their head. What if they put the watch on in total darkness and did not know what they were wearing. Would the feeling of emptiness be present or not? As for me... When I look down and see a genuine relax watch on my arm, I feel a little bit ashamed because if someone asks: "Is that a real relax watch?" I would have to say yes.

"The reason I'm asking is I have 2 cartel 1680's, one with the REP and one with the Clark 127 crystal...on both, the cyclops looks slightly shifted to the right....so it is not completely centered over the DW opening.....not to mention the additional issue with the DW numbers "11" to "19" being sightly shifted towards the left in the window, other numbers line up pretty well....so, is this a crystal issue? a dial/window issue? DW issue?.....can different model number crystal/cyclops solve the problem?" I doubt this is much help but genuine rolex date windows are centered approximately 9mm from the dial center and eta 2824 etc are about 10mm. Since aft/mkt crystals are usually made to genuine specs, the magnifier can be too far to the left on a lot of replicas. My vintage acrylic crystal replicas (all came from 'Paul') have the date window offset same a genuine but I have a couple modern submariner replicas with the date window offset farther to the right than genuine...also have a few with the magnifier same as genuine so you never know what you might get. One good thing about modern replicas is that you can remove the magnifier and put it in the right spot but with vintage replicas, sometimes you are out of luck. I guess there is a lot to be said in favor of no date vintage replicas...and vintage SD.

!!! http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=5304757&rid=0

"One of the real problems is the absolute control that Rolex is exercising over it's parts supply. It is getting next to impossible to source new Rolex parts. I had a watchmaker acquaintence who has a parts account with Rolex. He tried to source a genuine crystal for my GMT IIC. Rolex NA told him that he would have to send the watch to a Rolex Service Center for the crystal exchange. He called several other Rolex watchmakers and they all got the same story, either the part was "backordered" or they needed to send the watch to a RSC.Looks like genuine parts are going to become impossible to obtain unless you have a genuine watch that needs work.It's too bad, because as the parts become more unobtainable, the hoarding will drive the prices higher." This is exactly what is happening. I remember pricing 100 new assorted rolex crowns (a few steel and gold 7.0 but mostly steel and gold 6.0, and 5.3) to a repair guy with no parts account at the NAWCC show in Orlando FL 12 or 15 years ago for $3000 and he said "That's too damn much!" I bet he has changed his tune. "There's a bit of a disconnect with genuine vintage parts, however. I don't think anyone here would spend big money on gen vintage crystals, but on TZ and VRF there are lots of people with more money than brains, and they'll pay a lot for the "correct" part. Add in the unavailability factor, and insanity creeps in." Yep, and they deserve it imho. "When you're talking vintage, it's the wild wild west." Fer sure! Insanity: http://jewelry.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=rolex+crown&_sacat=281&_odkw=rolex+crown&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313

"Any thoughts would be really appreciated!" I have driled quite a few lug holes and it always gives me the heebie jeebies. No matter how careful you are, something can always go wrong. The 'not so hard to do' job of enlarging existing lug holes is not nearly as bad as drilling holes all the way through lugs with blind holes...but it is still tricky because: 1...The bit can break off in the hole. 2...The bit can flex or wobble making the hole out of round or off to one side from where it should be. 3...You drill the hole too big or too close to the edge of the lug. 4...All of the above. Drilling blind lugs is a real hassle because: 1...You have to know exactly where to drill the hole. 2...You have to mount the case in a holder of some sort. 3...If you miss the desired location and try to drill it again, the bit will always follow the existing hole so there's no fixing an out of place hole once it is very deep in the lug. One fix that might work is to try to drill out the first hole with a bigger drill bit but it is risky. Try this only if the first hole is quite a bit smaller than what you want to end up with. 5...You screw up a hole or two but decide to mount the bracelet anyway...the hoods will not fit precisely between the lugs. 4...I saved the worst for last...you need FOUR! (4) holes precisely drilled. Not 1, 2, or 3....but 4! Four chances to screw up. A few tips from all my screwups: 1....(I'll put the worst up first) Practice on some spare cases if for no reason other than to see just how bad it can get. 2...Get 3 or more drill bits of each size and learn how to sharpen drill bits. 3...Find or make a sturdy case holder of some sort. If the case slips in the holder...the drill bit walks or breaks. 'walks' = leaves the desired spot and gouges a trail on the lug as it moves along 4...Buy a cheapo bench mount drill press from Harbor Freight etc if you do not have one. A 1/4 or 3/8 hand drill mounted in a $10 frame will not do the job. 5...When enlarging existing holes...go up one drill bit size at a time and lubricate the drill bit after it starts biting into the lug. Too much or too slick and the lube can prevent rapid cutting and the bit will overheat. If it starts squealing and smoking...it's time for a new bit. 6...Start the hole in blind lugs with just enough drill bit sticking out of the chuck for the chuck to clear the rest of the case to prevent the drill bit from flexing or walking. After the hole is a mm or two deep, you can let a little more of the drill bit out of the chuck. 7...If the hole inside the opposite lug is in line with the hole you just drilled...you can usually just keep drilling and it will make a matching pair of straight holes in both lugs. Sometimes not though if the holes inside the lugs were drilled from under or above the lugs. Many are drilled at an angle so check them carefully. 8...The most important tip of all. wear safety glasses! I have a miniature Sherline milling machine and a hefty case mount but I will not work on someone else's case because it is so easy to make a mess out of a perfectly good case. I have the trophys to prove it. Good luck!

Concerning 'same as genuine' cases, dials etc: "Their pricing is high (contrary to the claims of many aftermarket parts sellers, there is little/nothing about the quality of their parts that differs from the average run-of-the-mill rep watch) & it takes a bit of experience/expertise to sort out the chaff from the wheat. Their 'refinished' dials are, from my experience, simply new/aftermarket dials with variable accuracy (this is where the experience/expertise comes in). When buying parts from them, be aware that, unless otherwise noted, they are designed to fit gen watch cases/movements, not rep cases. As for their complete watches, same rules apply. However, be aware that, like standard reps - regardless of advertised claims - there is little/no QC involved in their construction, so you would be wise to keep your expectations low & to have the watch professionally serviced upon receipt (& be prepared to pay to repair on your expensive 'new' watch)." Thanks! This really needed to be said. It should be pinned and a copy should be taped on the bathroom mirror of every Frankenmodder...especially the part about keeping expectations low. Imho, prices charged for 'same as OEM' cases, dials etc is absurd because from what I read here they are hit or miss...mostly miss. After all, a $500 1570 case is the same as a $25 DG/eta case except for a few minor details.

"How much did those air kings set you back if I may ask?" I bought a nice 5501 tutone AK timehead for $450 a while back but the dial had been refinished and had a dent in it. I bought a Yuki 5500 'Explorer' dial with goldtone letters and plan to put it on the watch after c/o, case tube, crown, and crystal. After all that, I will have around $700 in it.

Here are a couple very good reviews of ST/Seagull movements compared to eta: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/st18-eta-2892-2-review-257999-post1877057.html

"My question is, is the movement really that bad, or are the examples I got just really bad?" Imho...the movements are basically good designs...ST6, ST16, NN38, DG2813 etc but many them suffer greatly after leaving the factories. It is true that some duds will leave the factory but I bet most of the troubles are caused by careless storage and handling after leaving the factories. How many have you seen with fingerprints and various UFO fibers, (hairs?) etc all over them? I took the time (wasted the time?) to clean and oil a few and so far they are running just fine. The most common trouble I have seen is 'stopping for no reason'...the reason usually being grit etc in the movement. Consistency is important...if it gains or loses 1 minute a day every day it can usually be timed to a better rate. If it gains 1 minute one day and loses 5 minutes the next...something is wrong. If it gains or loses 15 or 20 minutes (or more) every day...something is wrong. When one of these movements does not keep good time, the usual fix is to replace it...after making sure the replacement is clean and keeps time.

"However, that doesn't mean you can't get a nice one. I have a manual wind (lemania aka Venus aka Seagull ST19) version that although has a frozen 6-o-clock subdial (the 12 hour totalizer doesn't work) is still a beautiful watch. These can be had for a very reasonable price, with a rock solid movement." They are bargains. I have had one for 3 years with no trouble other than a loose screw on a lever. I do not wear it often but it surprises me at the accuracy and quality for such a small amount of $$. Otoh...the case on mine is oversize and uses a 20mm bracelet. If the case was a bit smaller and used 19mm bracelet, it would be a favorite. I do not know if any of today's ST19 Seagull watches come with smaller cases and 19mm bracelets or not.

"Here's another idea regarding the vintage rolex market: The people that value these watches are probably middle aged and older. As they eventually die off, will anyone care about the vintage sports? Didn't the bubblebacks already transition into this phase?" I feel the same way. I recently bought a real nice 6050 BB for $350 that needs a balance staff...20 years ago it would have been $1000+ in the same condition. I call it the 'Cushman Eagle Syndrome'. Cushman Eagles were hot when I was a kid and a new one was about $375 or so. A good used one would go for around $150 to $200. (I had Ducatis and Nortons, never had a Cushman aka 'Pushman'.) Fast forward 40 years...Eagles were going for $5000 in restored condition a few years ago and now are around $3500 as the buyers are getting fewer and fewer. In a few more years they will probably be $1000. A friend of mine does engine work for Dennis Carpenter the 'Cushman King' and I drop by his shop now and then. http://www.dennis-carpenter.com/cushman.php

I found this: WatchNet Deal Watch: Sep 03, 2010 - 09:41 PM I recently purchased a used Rolex case from JSN485 on Timezone, it arrived today in very poor condition and I asked him to replace it as he was selling 6 of them, he responded that mine was the best of the 6 and there was nothing he could do, Just a heads up guys if mine is the best the rest must be junk so dont buy them from him!!!!!!!!!!!! The fellow who posted this is a long time rolex parts dealer with a first class reputation.

Looking back at my first two projects, I think you can do quite a lot using a rep Datejust case. If I were to go over them again, I would focus on the crystals and sand them down so they didn't protrude so much. Get the general profile right, and you have a nice 1016 rep for not that much money (relatively speaking!)." I agree, and since a replica case does not cost much there would be a lot less anxiety when drilling lug holes etc. I have a couple replica DJ cases that will accept genuine crystals and that is what I will use on the next 1016 project. Fine looking batch of watches btw!

I had a friend who owned a used car lot and when he was trying to sell a junker (aka 'dog') and there was really nothing good to say about it, he would say: "It was bought new." That's about the only good thing anyone could say about this piece of junk watch case. Back to the used car lot... When a customer asked "Did you check the water and oil in the car?" He would say: "Yeah, it's wet and slick." "Is it really a one owner car?" "Yeah, one at a time." Do you guarantee it? "Yeah, I guarantee it won't bark at night."

"I want to drill out a set of 1016 lug holes, does anyone know the correct diameter for 1016 lug holes looking at a few I am guessing it is not the standard sub 1.2/1.3mm." I measured a submariner springbar and the ends are 1.2mm. The hole will need some clearance...so maybe 1.3mm or so. The center tube is 2.0mm. You can use regular submariner springbars...shorten them, round the ends off just a little bit, and polish the ends. DJ springbars are .9mm on the ends and the tube is 1.8mm