Rant: Why are you paying for "the best" if you don't know what "the best" is?

[lhooq]

I don't get some people.  Why are you spending $700 on a rep if you can't even tell the difference between it and a $200 rep?  Maybe it's so you can have "the best and most accurate" (under $1000, of course), but why can't you be arsed to learn --actually learn, rather than check through a list of features (i.e. don't ask me about recessed subdials if you don't even know what a subdial is)-- a few things about this watch that you claim to be obsessed with?  Is it so you can fool your friends, who most likely wouldn't know the difference between a $7000 franken and a $100 F-grade quartz?  And if you actually ran into someone who knew their stuff, do you really think they wouldn't be able to suss out that you've only got the most superficial knowledge of this supposedly rare watch you're wearing? 

 

I'm fine with helping people who are genuinely eager to learn about watches.  But I have no time for people who demand to be spoon-fed hard-earned lessons while exhibiting all the diligence and attention of a toddler at Sunday Mass. 

 

Rant over. 

[sgtguk]

Bet you feel better now 

[508-Fanatic]

who makes the best sub replica?

[508-Fanatic]

Kidding...kidding...

 

lhooq your contributions here that I've read have been fantastic and I personally thank you for helping to expand my mind when it comes to this stuff...

 

 

Personally speaking, as someone who is really only familiar with watches and goods costing significant sums of money - clothes, watches, cars, furniture etc - pretty much all the daily accouterments we live with in the "luxury lifestyle" that spending $200 on a replica watch downright terrifies me. I cannot fathom it not just falling apart a week or two after wearing it, or having it be such a disgustingly cheap imitation that people silently (or worse, not) laugh at me for wearing it. Consequently, I don't own a single "replica" wristwatch and I came here to learn how to build a "Franken" out of (hopefully) largely genuine Rolex parts and a genuine movement. 

 

But as I've poured over these forums and seen wrist-shots of some of these replicas, I've become enticed. Downright smitten. I ordered one recently, an Omega Master 300, there's a popular thread going on it - and I think it's a pretty watch. I've held the genuine at our local dealer, so I'm *extremely* curious to see what this little $300 is packing. I mean... I've spent more on single straps than that. You all know in the world of "haute horologie" that price is extremely subjective and the sky-moon isn't the limit ;-)

 

Part of what's drawing me to replica's is that quite frankly I cannot afford to be constantly switching out 4-5 figure wristwatches as my mood suits me. I change watches *a lot* those listed in my signature are pretty much what I alternate between and any sane normal reasonable person would be happy with one of those...the Rolex or Zenith in particular... I am not satisfied but I've realized my financial limitations right now in starting a new business and being a father. Reps for now, perhaps back to gens later, maybe I'll be converted and impressed enough by this Omega...

 

Thanks for reading

[lhooq]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, 508. It's more than my OP deserves, which —as sgtuk accurately noted— was primarily a vent over a correspondent in another forum. You tackled the cost half of my question, and all your reasons are valid. Personally, I can justify scarily high outlays on certain projects, so I really don't have a problem with "sky's the limit" budgets—even for reps. What really bothers me is money combined with an utter lack of curiosity.

Anyway, the feedback on the SM300 Master is pretty good, so I think you should be fine. Contact donerix for a nice strap!

[Bc1221]

Sometimes I wish I could go back to the time when I couldn't tell the difference.

Damn curse if you ask me.

[tomhorn]

 

It's not only those who are looking for an out of the box rep. It gets even worse when people think they can do a complex build without doing any research. Can't tell you how many questions I get on the various boards about my builds ... most of which are clearly answered in my build threads.

 

I mean, on one hand I'm a bit flattered that they at least read enough to figure out I might a good person to ask, but to ask something stupid like what parts I used on a build (when they are all clearly listed) makes me shake my head.

 

 

 

I've actually told a couple of people not to even try a build and buy one that's already done, if they aren't going to bother learning about what they are getting into first.

 

Like you (who helped me greatly on the 1016 build), I am a big believer in "pay it forward," and don't mind answering questions when it's clear the questions are coming from someone who has done at least some work on their own, but is just stuck or confused on something. Show me you've put some effort in, and I'll give you everything I know with pleasure. Expect to be spoon-fed? I'm not your guy either.

[automatico]

q...

I guess the only replica I would ever recommend is a TC or BK but I would probably be quiet to keep from having to answer another 20 questions.

Regular 'what to buy' questions get the standard "I dunno" or "Bulova, Seiko, or Citizen."

 

I get asked replica type questions quite a bit (in person, not on forums) and I sometimes have to keep my big mouth shut because some of the dumazz questions just knock me back.

One question I get asked often is the never ending "Is it real?" I always say "If it was not real you could not see it."

Then the standard dumazz response after I tell someone that a watch is a replica pops out of their mouth...  

"How can you tell?"

I always say "It takes about 20 years."  

[Mike on a bike]

Having been in rep game only 2.5 years and having absolutely no ability to build watches still (plenty of tools on hand )strap changes yes links nope ,believe it or not. I have been able to amass a great deal of knowledge including movements types this, that, good, bad weaknesses as well as spotting flaws in other areas. This being said it took time no immediate gratification, I believe this is the problem Tom no patience. So put your time in new guys effort counts and if you really go the extra mile you might make mod in two years.

 

 

PS read read read here RWI,RWG 2, Geek, read do not ASK. Also Google is your friend....................... yes read some more!

[Nightwatch]

Every day I come here, I learn something new and I would never have believed the time (years) it takes to get into the details and finesses. The fine thing is, it´s real fun to learn about. I´m incredibly grateful that members, with outstanding inside knowledge, like You Ihooq and Tomhorn exist and offer/share the very detailed amount of support You do.

Thanks to Mike´s tips I was able to buy all the parts, open up a Seiko and make my first ever FFF-mod which is simple and learned lots of "how to do´s" along the way. These have helped me since with waterproofing and sorting out/fixing minor issues.

So I´m very happy around, thanks All.

[panerai153]

I have seen it here, and a lot on some of the gen forums. A complete lack of intellectual curiosity, coupled with  this overwhelming desire for instant gratification. There are a lot of folks here on this forum that I owe and immeasurable amount of gratitude for  their knowledge, skills, and their  unselfish desire to spread the knowledge. I would be far less knowledgeable about reps and watches in general were it not for you great guys. At the opposite end of the spectrum are the "no nothings" And I'm not talking about the noobs who come here with a very limited knowledge base, which is pretty much where we all started, but are diligent in their research, ask intelligent and well thought out questions, and before long are real contributing members of the forum. the ones I'm talking about are the ones that come here, with the sole purpose of finding a nice rep that will fool their friends and their fellow workers at Domino's, have no desire to increase their knowledge base or become a contributing member of the watch society. Sorry fellows, but for you, I don't have the time or inclination to spoon feed you knowledge that I and many others learned the hard way. These are the folks who are buying a rep for one purpose and one purpose only, to fool people into thinking that they are something that they are not. What these idiots don't realize is that it would take a real watch guy (WIS) about 30 seconds of conversation to realize that the person he is talking too is more fake than his watch!! You know I should be worried that I might step on some toes with this post, but I'm pretty confident that the folks I'm talking about aren't taking the time to read anything here, much less some mundane thread like this ( not being negative to your thread lhooq , just that those folks that refuse to read threads relevant to their watch desires will certainly not waste their valuable time reading this!!)  

[Nanuq]

Well said.

And now page back to the early years of RWG and the guides written by people that used to be here, explaining the state of the art as it was at the time. Guess why those guides were written?

[civic4982]

I hear ya:

http://www.rwgforum.net/index.php?/topic/174464-pam-382-bronzo

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lhooq]

tomhorn:  I think you've been more patient than most when it comes to dealing with stuff like this.  I can barely make it through that epic, tl:dr discussion you've been having on RG!

 

I have seen it here, and a lot on some of the gen forums. A complete lack of intellectual curiosity, coupled with  this overwhelming desire for instant gratification.

 

Bullseye. 

 

For the record, the one I referred to in my OP wasn't anyone on RWG.  I'm happy to say I've enjoyed >95% of my PMs here, including all the "Hey man, are you selling that 5512 yet?" queries!  I'm still learning--not just from the old masters like ubi and automatico, but also from brand-new members with nuggets of information that were once unknown to me.  It's one of my favorite things about this forum.

[droptopman]

Interesting topic.  Here is a honest point of view from a Noob's perspective.  Not meant to be any kind of disrespect or challenge more just my humble point of view from initially the other side.    

 

Several of you in this thread have helped me tremendously and I am very thankful for your time and patience.  The sharing of knowledge and experience is one of the things I value the most from the forum.

 

I look back on some of the conversations via PM I have had with experienced members here and I asked a lot of questions that might be considered the type that is being discussed here.  Generally I always do searches for information and try to read as much as possible.  I love the hobby and truly have a desire to gain knowledge and at some point watch building skills.  Problem being; that especially in the beginning, I really did not know the correct questions to  ask or in some cases what to search for.  That process: that you don't know that you don't or in some cases even where to start.  So I hope that I have not fallen into the category of folks that want something for nothing, as that certainly was never my intention.    

 

I have learned some things this year, thanks to many of you, I generally still take a lot more from the forum, than I am able to give it.  I do plan to stick around and at hopefully at some point will be able to contribute more than I take.    

 

So while I absolutely agree with the topic and what has been posted, just wanted to give another point of view.  I do get it.  As at this point--since I have completed and posted some builds, I actually get those PM's that you are talking about.  Generally the member does not want to do any work for the information and wants me to do the work for them. It seems pretty easy to tell the difference.  Someone that has done some footwork and has a valid question versus someone who has no posts and just wants me to do their work.  The ones that crack me up are questions about cost.  For example, someone asked if they could build a franken Matt DJ like mine for less than $200 the other day...I was like, I doubt it since the dial cost $600.... 

 

 

[panerai153]

Drop top,

It's usually pretty easy to discern who is legitimately interested and the "hit and run" guys who don't seek knowledge, just who has the best sub, etc.

As I have said before, we were all noobs once. The big difference is who is genuinely interested in horology, has the intellectual curiosity to dig around and find answers, and is eager to help others who are looking to expand their knowledge base. Those are the type of folks who make a forum successful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[droptopman]

Hi Pan153, 

 

True and I do get it.  It is easy to tell the difference.  Maybe I am feeling guilty for asking so many questions over the last year.   

[Mike on a bike]

droptop do not worry about it as p153 said the guys know the difference.     " Those are the type of folks who make a forum successful."   Exactly.

[Mike on a bike]

You know when rereading my prior post about reading for new guys of course sometimes you have to ask. It is all about taking the time to build up relationships with guys posting about this and that in so become part of the group like droptopman has and between reading ,research and help from the guys who know you ............................................

[alterego]

Insightful perspective regarding this hobby. I think that only time and sharing knowledge are the key to a rewarding experience in the forum.  I've been here for 8 years and I have posted only a little more than 200 posts and I have no problem in saying all I know about reps comes from reading the material posted here and other forums.

At times threads turn a bit repetitive, the typical question being who makes the best ... But I take this as an effort to be more knowledgeable, on the part of new people. Of course there are those guys who become a pain in the neck when they want to know everything about this great sport overnight. 

One last thing. I don't know if I'm wrong in this but something that is very hard for me to see with sympathy is the tendency to talk about the High End reps, super reps, watches that cost a lot more than regular reps, but which may be worth much less than they expect to be sold for.

[KB]

I have over 20 watches and not a single one has been modded in anyway.

 

Yes like all the old timers I have acquired the eye enough to pick a lot of minor details.

 

The thing for me is that I collect replica watches and everyone who knows me knows I collect replica watches and my big thing is how well these watches are made with no extra modification.

 

Ken

[panerai153]

I understand that we probably spend an inordinate amount of time talking about "super reps" and highly modded watches. I believe that for the most part folks enjoy reading and looking at photos if these watches. I believe that a huge amount of knowledge can be gained from these threads. Obviously, before someone spends 3-5k on a vintage Daytona build, they are going to spend a lot of time researching all the nuances of these models. Most folks are eager to share this information, which is wonderful because if for nothing else, it keeps the rest of us from making the same mistakes over and over.

I also tend to agree that we build these watches, spend a lot of money on them and then are disappointed when we put them up for sale and are disappointed at what they eventually sell for. Believe me, I know that feeling all to well. In fact back when some of us were on the old TRC, I got so disgusted with taking a beating on modded reps that I sold every one of my reps and totally got out of reps for several years. I suppose I didn't learn my lesson very well, because I'm right back in the same dilemma, with a box full of highly modded reps!! I think that most of us that have built a few realize that the chances are very slim that we will ever get our money back on a build. I think that for most of us it's more the journey than the destination

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[pcardoza]

Really no different than building most anything....   If you were to hand-build a vintage automobile, buying parts one at a time, you would never recoup the cost in it's resale value.

[508-Fanatic]

I have over 20 watches and not a single one has been modded in anyway.

 

Yes like all the old timers I have acquired the eye enough to pick a lot of minor details.

 

The thing for me is that I collect replica watches and everyone who knows me knows I collect replica watches and my big thing is how well these watches are made with no extra modification.

 

Ken

 

I have over 20 watches and not a single one has been modded in anyway.

 

Yes like all the old timers I have acquired the eye enough to pick a lot of minor details.

 

The thing for me is that I collect replica watches and everyone who knows me knows I collect replica watches and my big thing is how well these watches are made with no extra modification.

 

Ken

 

 

Exactly! I just got my first rep today via Trusty, Omega Seamaster Master 300 - after having held the genuine version in the store, examined it and everything I must stay I am literally STUPEFIED as to how nice and accurate this watch is. I seriously couldn't be more pleased. The only negative is the miyota seconds hand is a little jagged in it's movement but I'm going to have my watchmaker friend strip it down and clean it up to see if that improves, but so far the timing is top-notch seemingly

 

love love love it. 

[tomhorn]

I understand that we probably spend an inordinate amount of time talking about "super reps" and highly modded watches. I believe that for the most part folks enjoy reading and looking at photos if these watches. I believe that a huge amount of knowledge can be gained from these threads. Obviously, before someone spends 3-5k on a vintage Daytona build, they are going to spend a lot of time researching all the nuances of these models. Most folks are eager to share this information, which is wonderful because if for nothing else, it keeps the rest of us from making the same mistakes over and over.

I also tend to agree that we build these watches, spend a lot of money on them and then are disappointed when we put them up for sale and are disappointed at what they eventually sell for. Believe me, I know that feeling all to well. In fact back when some of us were on the old TRC, I got so disgusted with taking a beating on modded reps that I sold every one of my reps and totally got out of reps for several years. I suppose I didn't learn my lesson very well, because I'm right back in the same dilemma, with a box full of highly modded reps!! I think that most of us that have built a few realize that the chances are very slim that we will ever get our money back on a build. I think that for most of us it's more the journey than the destination

 

Surprisingly not. At least more frequently anyway. While I also love going over build threads and learning things, I have had several people with less than 25 posts PM me on the various boards asking to just buy one of my builds, or ask "if I could just do it for them." They just don't want to be bothered with learning, or working on a project. They figure that anything that was custom built will be more convincing than off-the-shelf, and they just want something they can pass off as gen. I call this the Mayer effect. Nothing wrong with wanting to buy a finished product (that's why there are M2M sales after all), but I'm amazed at how often you can tell that people just don't care about the watch. Post #1, "Who has the best Sub?" Post #2 .... well, there isn't a post #2 because someone said buy a TC v6, which they did, and are never to be heard from again. The longer I've been here, the more I hate seeing this happen.

 

As for doing builds, for me they fall into two categories. Those you are building to hold onto forever (and maybe even pass them down). Think one of UBI's builds, for example. Then there are those you build for the satisfaction of doing it, which may or may not be something you would ever sell. There should be a different mindset in those two types of builds. You can sink a lot more money into something you don't ever want to part with, as opposed to something you don't hold that kind of feeling for.

 

Obviously life happens, and sometimes that piece you never thought you would sell has to be let go. Those will definietly be hard to deal with, both on a price and on an emotional level. If you sell the watch as a whole, you are probably going to lose money (often times a lot). Recouping your costs usually means parting things out, which is hard because of all the time and energy you put into the build. Examples of these types of builds include using gen Rolex movements, adding all of the Rolex bridges/parts to an elPrimero movement, using a Phong case or a gen dial when another option is available, etc. It's going for that last 5% of "perfection" that gets you into builds that are impossible to get your investment back out of when it comes to a sale. I have seen plenty of builds that are probably worth every penny of the money asked because of all the parts included, but the price-point gets too high except for a select few to afford. The whole concept of pricing yourself out of the market definitely applies.

 

On the other hand, being very patient while buying parts, using ETA movements instead of gen, and only using the gen parts that are really necessary can get you a great build that can be turned easily wihout taking a big hit. Especially as parts prices escalate. I could easily sell my DateJust for more than I have into it (were I so inclined. I'm not, so no PMs, please. ), but in order for anyone else to do the same, they need to do a lot of research, and be patient enough to shop well. That doesn't come from joining a board, and asking a couple of people to spoon-feed you information or to just do things for you, without figuring some things out for yourself first.