By-Tor

The pics are very blurry but it's quite safe to say (even from those pics) that it's a terrible replica. Most likely it's kinda stuff that you can get from the street sellers (with those long raincoats).

The WHS modification of ETA has always fascinated me. I even wrote an article about it. Read it here. As I said, I've found the system very reliable, and while it has nothing to do with a real GMT movement(techically), the function is just as useful. Of course there's a huge compromise to make (horologically)... otherwise we couldn't have $200 replications of $6000 watches.

Perhaps the serviceability might be the "achilles heel"? I have no real technical knowledge of the movements... I can only look at the functionality and base my opinion on the member feedback. It would actually be great to see Ziggy's technical review of the WHS movement.

The funniest thing about this Chinese invention is that there are genuine watches that use this mod now. Here is one... Bernhardt Globemaster.

@Arthur: I recall you owned a beautiful 1675. Rolex 1575 movement is functionally similar as this. There just isn't luxury like adjustable 24 hand available. I always found the purpose of old orange hand Explorer II (with fixed bezel) very "questionable". With 1575 you can't use it as a 2nd timezone watch. This system works great with a watch like Explorer II. The owner just has to understand how to set it properly.

To add to The Zigmeisters explanation, there have been quite a few threads started on this and other watch forums about the 2836 as a GMT movement. If you will look through some of these you will see some pretty graphic photos of the "baling wire and duct tape" methods that the rep manufacturers use to make the 2836 into a GMT movement. Forget sophisticated Modules that are used by genuine manufacturers to add on complications to a watch movement, these are crude attempts to make something into something it isn't. Back in 2006 when i started buying reps and participating in forum discussions, the 2893-2 movement was available. It was more expensive, but most of the rep sellers offered the 2893-2 as an alternative. I had two very nice PAM reps ,a 029 and a 063 I believe, that both had 2893-2 movements. They were great watches, kept good time and had a flawless GMT function.As the 2893-2's became less and less available, the rep manufacturers switched over to the 2836-2 with the GMT modification. Almost immediately post started popping up on the forums about the GMT hand not working, watches stopping, etc. The Zigmeister in one of his posts fairly early on, expressed his frustration at the obvious poor guality and "unfixability" (Is that a word!) of the modified 2836-2 movements. In fact he stated that he would not work on the movement.

If you want the watch, buy it. I have one coming in myself with the 2836-2 modified ,it's supposed to be a genuine Swiss ETA movement. Plan is, wear it and see what happens. If it craps out, i'm hoping that a 2893-2 movement can be swapped out. If not it's a paperweight.

Just My Dos Centavos

Arthur

People always put these two modifications into the same basket, which is totally wrong (imho).

There are 2 different "faux" ETA GMT's: Correct hand stack modification and the wrong hand stack "GMT" modification.

Based on my own experience, the reliability between these two models is like a night and day.

I'm a big fan of 2nd timezone watches and I've owned many: 4 CHS movements. 3 of them had serious problems. 2 died within a month. One is running fine after 4 years (but I haven't touched the independent hour setting at all). But based on both Ziggy's report and member feedback it's safe to say this modification is absolute garbage.

I've also owned more than 10 WHS ETA movements in the past 5 years. Not even one single of them had any problems. NONE. Just ask any veteran RWG member if they had any... they'll all answer no. Then ask bklm1234 how many WHS movements he has sold... probably hundreds. He'll also tell you that there are very, very few problems... ever.

I've only heard of some rare problems about the 24h hand not following properly... never of any fatal ones. But when the CHS version dies (or breaks) it's completely trashable. There are no spare parts and the "fork" that operates the independent hour hand is made of "rubber bands and iron wires". The usual problem is that the hour hand starts to "slip" because the whole system "loosens" or wears out. In the case of CHS movement, it's the hour hand which is usually slipping. That means you can't even use the watch for its basic purpose: to read time.

The WHS might be a bastardized movement and I have no idea how serviceable it is... but reliability wise it's not even 1/100 as bad as the CHS... and while it's not a "real" GMT movement it serves its purpose (to show the time of the 2nd timezone). Maybe it's "horologically cheap" but I have no idea why people insist on calling the reliability crap because both my own experiences and the member feedback have always told a completely different story.

Excellent work.

I've always said this is a nice rep.

My rep vs. gen comparison is here. The rep is very close.

Great watch.

Roninq's gen is beautiful but the rep ain't bad, either.

I prefer mine on steel but the leather goes well with it, too.

Thanks all.

@vlydog: This didn't "go away". One got away, yes, but this is my new one.

Hehe thanks guys.

I have more time again (to be around). I'll definitely shoot some new watch photos in the near future. Lots of them.

I have never taken macros as I don't find that photography style very fascinating. But your pics are very cool... excellent quality. They're a nice way to demonstrate the fine details in genuines (and genuine parts).

Maybe we've forgotten that what we are really oohing and aahing at are the designs of skilled watchmakers and designers. Like when Ubi posts photos of his rep IWC 3707, it just reminds me of how great the gen is. But, I'm not oohing and aahing at the rep. Its almost as though we've forgotten the true nature of our passion for watches.

I don't see it that way. The best reps are visually so close to the gens that you can barely notice the difference. IWC utilizes the base 7750 movement, which is absolutely NOTHING special (horologically). The function on the rep is exactly the same. Same thing with basic non-complications... ETAs/Asian movements show the time just as well as an expensive inhouse 3135 in Rolexes. And the service cost isn't 500 Euros on the rep.

Personally, I find reps much more fascinating. Without reps I wouldn't own any of my gens. They can be a great "test drive"... imagine buying a $7K GMT IIc and finding out only a few weeks later that it's not the right watch for you. You're facing an immediate, heavy price depreciation.

And this community is much more thrilling than any gen forum, imho. If you look at the RWG history, you'll notice that we've always had lots of colorful, even a bit shady characters.

Most gen forums are about as exciting as this old TV show:

Why do some people own 10 or more fakes when they could own 1 rep?

You lost me there.

Anyone selling his blue gen SFSO?

Cool Breitlings!!

Wearing my classic black Sub right now.

Hey, I haven't taken watch photos in a LONG time. But today I snapped & composed a new one.

This watch is one of my all time favorites.

I think it's ridiculous that they don't offer GMT II with the Pepsi option. It's like not offering Ferrari in red. Blasphemy!

All black GMT does nothing for me. Red and blue are synonymous with GMT and Rolex.

Congrats. Great watch!

Why would you change the bracelet as the SELs are the best ever done on a Sub replica? I recall the clasp coronet is perfect on v1 as well.

I actually installed the v1 SELs on my v2. They're SO much better.

I would just do the crown guards and live with it. I loved the "flat S" on my v1. Such a great Sub... the only reason I got v2 was the lume.

This was mine. Loved it.

That's great news BT :-) what about the lugholes?

What about them? I guess you have to drill them.

Or then just live with the T<25 marking & SELs. I guess it's not that big of a deal.

PS: The dial fits automatically to the older case (as my article says). Fitting it to this newer case probably requires some skills.

PS2: When you order from BK, get the black version (just in case). If it turns out that the dial won't fit anyway, at least you have hell of a nice rep. The white dial version replica is no good.

Edit: I could be wrong... it's not necessarily a quartz. It's the 2000 model series and it could be automatic... same movement as in the Aquagraph (with 2 separate seconds/stopwatch hands)?

Can you post smaller photo of the watch? Those pics are GIGANTIC. 800 x 600 is a great size.

Genuine. But it's quartz.

And what is going on with the bracelet endlink? It looks loose. It should be tight and snug.

I would try to get a stainless steel version as it's much better looking, but then again if you like TT...

BT, many many thanks for your encouragement!

Would you consider King's "ROLEX-EXPLORER 1-ROLEX-159" as a viable base?

It's from her old www.kingwatches.net site

Tomorrow she'll send me the 159 dial diameter to see if the gen dial would fit.

Cheers,

Athan

Athan,

stay away from that model. It's wrong in so many ways.

You need the "Noobfactory" version of Explorer II. It's the superior replica case... no other versions come even close. You can source it from bklm1234.

They say that the dial wouldn't fit the new versions but Repaustria managed to fit gen dial to this new case. I guess it requires some shaving out of the outer diameter.

I have always said that (regardless of the wrist size) 40-42mm is pretty much the perfect watch size. However I can enjoy the bigger ones too... it's all about "balance". UPO 45mm was felt too big because it wasn't "visually balanced" to my eye. However 45mm Ebel BTR wears just perfect. The case shape makes it happen.

But generally I love the 40-42mm size. That's why most sports Rolexes and Omegas are my favorites. Something like DateJust/Day-Date I simply couldn't wear. They look just silly on me. Lovely watches though.

PS: The main reason I bought a gen Aquaracer chrono was that I prefer the 41mm over the new huge day-date (there is no rep of the 41mm version)... I love them both but the smaller one is even better looking watch (imho).

Congrats!

It's a Swiss T<25 dial which needs lugholes and non-SEL bracelet (if you're anal about it).

Read this for the correct dimensions. Good luck!

This very fine replication for Wed.

Why make it so complicated guys?

Maybe it used to be a complex thing but not anymore. It's actually very, very simple: WM9 is the best Sub. No other rep model comes even close.

@Thogaa: That's a hilarious wrist shot!

Wearing my secret agent watch today.