TC Sub V7

[tc670207]

 

 

Two years ago, TC Sub V6 was born. That specific date is Aug 25, 2014. With the birth of the V6 it caused quite a sensation on the forums. Many members claimed the V6 was almost perfect, gen like, some even said to me the work is done.

 

I cannot deny the fact with the help of my Scottish friend supplying the Kensington High dials, it really took TC Sub a major leap forward.

 

Still from time to time, I receive emails from members asking me what are the differences between TC and those $200-$300 rep Submariners they got. I loathe questions like that. But to answer the question from deep inside me "Is TC Sub perfected yet?" The honest answer is with the V6 the work is 90% done, but we have not climbed the last hard vertical peak.

 

To a novice collector whose goal is to get a Submariner to enjoy the envious glare, he can and will satisfy his need with a TC Sub V6 or the V6 based LV. But for the true seekers, there are just things that still can be improved, regardless doubling or even tripling the amount of time and resources which may need to be invested. The thought about improving and perfecting that last 10% has always been inside my gut.

 

Almost an year ago, I decided to implement the improved parts bit by bit to the TC builds without saying anything. For those members who have been receiving the TC builds in the past eight or so months, you have actually been getting the V7 specs on both the 16610 and the 16610LV, less probably TC 16610 & 16610LV Hands Set V3 and the 2016 KH 16610 and 16610LV dials.

 

All these improvements are subtle and minute. They can be hard to be appreciated or even completely unnoticeable with bare eyes by the common collectors while being night and day to those who are in the knows.

 

Aside from chasing the genuine appearance, I am after the ultimate genuine touch, hand feel, and genuine operational feedback. For these upgrades, we have entered the realm where the law of cost and performance ratio does not quite fit the bill. So if you are one of the members thinking something like "I don't see how these improvements justify the cost" or "It is outrageous how expensive a TC Sub is, I can get the same thing for $300 next door over", please skip this page and head to the next thread.

 

Only true craftsmanship can produce something that is beautiful under every hitting light.

(Shot on 8/20/2016)

 

 

To conquer the last mile, I had to deal with the Factory Direct Bezel Assembly problem first. If you would take a look back at "TC Sub 16610 V6", the Factory Direct Bezel Ring has mimicked the aesthetics of the genuine appearance to a certain degree (but not all there yet) plus the benefit of housing genuine 16610 insert with light sanding or no modding at all.

 

Despite the relative low cost to a moderate satisfactory aesthetic/performance level, the FD bezel ring scored very low on the genuine operational feedback aspect, the gen hand feel, and the gen turning sound. So it bugged me to a point I had to tear off the gen bezel ring of my M-serial Submariner LV and look at the miniature structure inside the bezel ring. This is what gen bezel ring inner gears looks versus the Factory Direct bezel ring inner gears:

 

The Factory Direct bezel ring inner gears were all deformed, or should I put it this way, they were not made right in the first place, to a point there is no possible way the bezel ring could produce the genuine turning feedback.

 

The technology Rolex applied to make the bezel ring inner gears is called "broaching". This manufacturing technique can only be mastered if one has a lot of gun barrels to make. That is to say, if you do not have many civilian gun makers in your country, you are not going to find someone who has got the right equipment and skill set to make a part that is this delicate, accurate and durable to withstand tens of thousands turns.

 

Luckily I am citizen of a country full of talented and skilled gun makers. Gentlemen, Pennsylvania Bezel Ring V1:

 

TC PA bezel assembly V1.

 

 

Last October, I introduced TC Sub LN & LV Insert V2. This is V1. Its the insert I put on TC Sub builds from TC Sub V6's 2014 debut to the end of 2015.

 

This is TC V2 Insert. There is a tiny chamfer surrounds the pearl holder on the top. Although hard for our brains to differentiate and put it in words, our eyes can perceive that tiny difference at 10 ~ 15 inches the usual distance we check time and behold the watch. We see beauty and our souls tickle. This is where science meets art and one of the factors Rolex dominates the luxury sector of the watch market. This is one of the features us true seekers grid over in the last 10% climb to the perfect classic Submariner.

 

 

Same story goes here with the hands. This is TC hands set V2. Some sharp eyed TC collectors claimed this is actually an easy tell tale sign.

 

TC Hands Set V3.

 

 

On EPHJ last year, I met a young talented watchmaker from Southern California. It was easy to pick up American accent in a crowded multi-language environment. The young man and his friend have a talent in perfecting a watch case by buffing and polishing. But they are still struggling in their early business establishment stage.

 

Through buffing and polishing, the young man and his friend could make a slightly imperfect watch case transform into a perfect watch case with symmetrical and balanced outer diameter. I'm glad I used the two young gentlemen's service in finishing 2016 TC Sub Case.

 

The 2016 TC Sub Case has all the correct measurement between the lugs, top to bottom outer diameter and is still made and machined in China. I must give credit to my Chinese friend for that. Only the final brushing, buffing, and polishing was done here in the States. But it is that final process gives 2016 TC Sub Case something different, something nostalgic and yet upscale.

 

Here is the gen M Sub case versus 2016 TC Sub case:

 

The Gen Sub case lug has a define, but narrow chamfer where the brushed surface meets the mirror polished flank.

 

2016 TC Sub Case lug has a even more define and broader chamfer. I was not too excited about the new finish done by my young friends in the beginning because the chamfered edges only happened after the case is serviced at Rolex service centers. The reason why many members think the chamfer lug is a gen look is because most of the 16610 and 16610LV Submariner nowadays have already been serviced a few times at least. It is supposed to be a watch that is at least 10 years old. After putting that into consideration, I am proud to present to you 2016 TC Sub Case.

 

 

 

With a new case distance between the lugs now set at 20.05mm gen size, we need a new bracelet with the correct measurement end link to match its opponent piece. Here it is, TC 93250 V6. This new clasp really brings a smile to my face. Noticed the difference from the V5 clasp?

 

 

 

 

20.05mm (+/-0.02mm) gen spec lug distance.

 

 

TC Sub V7

 

TC Sub LV (with V7 spec)

 

 

 

Coming up next:

PA Bezel Assembly V2 and TC Sub V7 Extreme

 

 

Before PA Bezel Assembly, TC Sub owners often report the Chinese Factory Direct bezel turns too loose. In some extreme cases, one can turn the bezel with little or no force by just a thumb. That directly contradicts ISO 6425 standard for Diver's Watch. ISO 6425 directs a diver's watch bezel has to have a built in braking mechanism to prevent sudden bumps or unintentional turning of the bezel during underwater operations for the divers.

 

With PA Bezel Assembly, my gun maker friend matches the bezel ring and the retaining ring with what he called military spec tight tolerance. It is kind of like a brand new gun will have to go through a few rounds of ammo to reach its designed accuracy, braking it in sort of speak. In the gun communities, no one would complain about the brake in process. It is part of the ritual.

 

Although there is no complaints of bezel being too loose ever again in the past several months that I implemented PA Bezel Assembly on to TC Sub builds, I did receive complaints from members about bezel being too tight and stiff to turn. I was being a red neck and ask the members to use their three fingers to press down evenly to release the brake then turn the bezel and to give it a good brake in. Hence most members who complained reported back that after hundreds of turns, the operational feedback, the hand feel becomes gen like.

 

A question rose in my head, "Would Rolex ask its customer to give the bezel a good brake in?". No, Rolex would not. The company sells luxury items with a starting price tag of $8,000 today, it would never be a red neck and ask its customer something like that. Though my relationship with TC Sub owners is not entirely a vendor-customer relationship but more likely enthusiasts sharing the same goal. But still, true seekers seek that ultimate genuine touch, hand feel, and that genuine out of box experience. So my challenge becomes how to overcome that PA bezel assembly's needed brake in?

 

The answer lies in fine tuning the blue print and compare to the original Rolex design. I took the question back to the manufacturer and we went back to the drawing board and re-examine the designs and compare back to the gen bezel assemblies. People would ponder if I did that the first time then why wasn't the V1 the final reproduction of the gen bezel assembly? Now you have to understand one thing just because you have a gen as datum doesn't mean you can easily replicate it 100% with a CNC machine. If they were truly the case, then all the Chinese factories would be making Rolex level hardware but they are not. The process to figure out the exact way to reproduce what Rolex did takes so many trial & error and that still doesn't mean you can get it right. But my demand for the gen hand feel, feedback, sound and operation feedback is adamant. So my PA bezel assembly supplier truly felt my passion.

 

I know there are members who will run their mouth with comments like "if the extreme version's only difference is the bezel assembly that doesn't justify the cost"

 

Let me show you a couple pictures of PA Bezel Assembly V1 versus PA Bezel Assembly V2:

 

 

 

There will be members who will like the more classic scallop look of the V1 but I know there will be so many members who will love the deeper more modern scallop look.  (starting with V-serials, Rolex begin to make the scallops deeper and deeper). So the idea of forming PA Bezel Assembly V2's look, scallops depth that is, had transformed to another level.

 

By "Extreme", my friend and I mean something like this. From left to right: V2, V1, and Gen.

 

Here is the final result of what the ultra refined inner gears produce that I would like to present especially to the members who owns or had owned a 5 digit gen Sub. I am very happy with the fact that with PA Bezel Assembly V2 on TC Sub V7 Extreme, The way it turns, the hand feel, the operational feedback, and the clicking sound. It is just so gen like. Best of all I will not have to be the hill Billy to ask members to "give the bezel a good brake in".

 

Sound of bezel turning: V7 vs V7 Extreme

 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

TC

 

8/29/2016

[themannier]

That is a great new !

The case has a chamfer now 

Wonderful piece, congratulations !

[tomhorn]

Wow ... your attention to detail is truly amazing ...

[woof*]

Wow

[slied013]

I want one!

[ninjagaiden]

Beautiful work. Learned lots from this post - thank you!

[SSTEEL]

Thanks for the ongoing work to perfect your watches Thomas, I will certainly be treating myself to both the LN, and LV, just don't tell the wife lol

[bill33]

Incredible work TC. Simply the best rep I've ever seen!

[Sogeha]

Very happy to see continued development and improvement. I have a feeling these will end up cult collector's pieces in time. They are a part of our hobbies history.

[ninjagaiden]

5 hours ago, SSTEEL said:

Thanks for the ongoing work to perfect your watches Thomas, I will certainly be treating myself to both the LN, and LV, just don't tell the wife lol

One of my colleagues at work feels the same way about shoes that I feel about watches. When her husband asks her the p rice of her new shoes, she tells him the price of one shoe!!!

[Propofol]

Incredible Thomas
Thank you so much for your effort and fight for those crazy new level of rep..

[Tribal]

Really nice

Gesendet von meinem MI 4S mit Tapatalk

[highoeyazmuhudee]

great read! gonna have to get me one of these new 2016 subs. cheers Thomas

[Ben88]

TC,

Excuse my ignorance, but what with me being new here I was unsure after reading your superbly detailed post about the V7 whether you retail watches or whether you just mod them for your own collection? 

Your V7 looks excellent. 

Many thanks 

Ben 

[woof*]

Ben

google TC submariner....you will find his site

[Ben88]

1 hour ago, woof* said:

Ben

google TC submariner....you will find his site

Thank you. 

[irolexu]

Well TC strikes again!! Now can you imagine TC and NOOB factory collaborating their best tools and resources? We could have a TC/NF rehaut engraved M serial sub.. I know I'm just day dreaming here and this is a rep forum so naturally nothing is ever good enough lol good work! Gonna have to sneak a LV in my collection! 

[droptopman]

Great post Thomas.  Your attention to detail is commendable.  Watches look great.

[mymanmatt]

As I have always said,  " the devil is in the details"  Outstanding TC. 

[436NR]

Wow! Just WOW!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dreamalaska]

Impressive! Time to pull trigger?

[cib0rgman]

Wow, I used to have TC sub three year ago I think, I wonder how much do they go for these days. do the movement still uses a glued in calendar wheel, that was the only thing that always bothers me about the watch.

Edited August 31, 2016 by cib0rgman

[Champagnesky]

Great improvement to the parts. Time to upgrade my v6

[hologramet]

Beautiful!

I admire your pursuit for that extra in this case "click". Maybe time to finally pick one up..

Still a  Maxi LV dial and handa,  no cyclops sapphire and LN. Pure magic.

 

 

 

 

 

[altesporsche]

ohhh nice i want one ! 

just tried to fit a Gen 3135 movement, dial, hands, x-tal, crown and tube into what was sold to me as a TC last year sometime and the crown height isnt right   i got taken...  time for one of these to stuff those goodies into.