sssurfer

BTW the best Pam out of the box is the FERRARI 008 chrono. Identical 99,9% to the genuine.

V is probably right.

It's just that I seem unable to consider the Ferraris as true Panerai watches.

(and I also need the date)

The ST2502 isn't dateless - it is a day/date movement (LH subdial day, RH subdial date)

Thanks for pointing out that, I did not realize what those subdials actually were.

But I was obviously meaning it is a datewheelless movement.

The PR function is easy to explain away as that is usually an add-on module anyway.

I don't think we can truly rule out that the base movement isn't in fact an ST-25, but it would seem correct that while the ST-25xx movement may share some parts with the ST-18 2892 clone, they are far enough apart to be regarded as completely different movements.

Yes, I am beginning to think that the 090 movement might more likely be an evoultion of the ST-18 (some ST-18xx) rather than a ST-25 series.

I'll try to extend my search on that direction and see what comes out.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

And what about vaseline? K-Y jelly? Butter?

are you refering your post to kruzer's crowns or palps?

I think that Tourby is referring to kruzer's crowns, as palp's ones already come in 1.2 size too.

(Dadog, please have a look at the stem adapter/extender thread, I added a post that you might want to know).

Sorry double post. Deleted.

Well that is interresting. I allways assumed that date Panerai were bad reps.

I read a lot about date font and cyclop being not accurate.

Yes, I too happened to come in knowledge of some date and cyclops issues.

I may assure you that the 050 date is the best out-of-the-box of all PAM reps, absolutely comparable with the gen.

On the 'old' RWG I read a post by archibald where he said that the date font was different.

I have no gen to make a side-by-side comparison, but no gen 050 pic I found on the net showed any real difference.

I also have a Finepics datewheel on my 028 rep, it is supposed to be exactly the same as a genuine (knowing Finepics' love for precision noone would doubt it), and on a side-by-side comparison there is no difference between the two fonts.

I suppose that the watch that archibald reviewed on the old RWG was an older 050 model, the date might have get improved after it.

Added:

I think that the only reason for the 050 not being more widely known and appreciated is that it is a 40mm, while PAM lovers are usually headed towards larger models...

Really ? This one ?

http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main...c20d622709740df

Yes, that one.

Spot a flaw if you can.

Also the numbers on the caseback are correct.

That watch would foolish everyone but a Paneristi owner of the gen. And even in that case, it would not be because of a flaw but because of the genuine unsurpassable quality of finish.

(BTW, I had my 050 tested for waterproof by a watchsmith, and it passed the test hands down. Good for swimming and even occasional diving like the 2-3 meters short divings that one may want to go when swimming).

Thanks sssufer ... looks like you saved me a lot of frustration ... i guess everyones fantasy is that all parts could be had and changed ... then voila ... perfect rep ... i would have to work backwards and that is still no guarantee that it would work out .. oh well back to the drawing board..

You are welcome.

If you are looking for a the easiest rep to mod, naturally they are the base models.

If you want something more complex (e.g. I absolutely need seconds and date) and where you only need to improve the date and cyclops to come to 99.9%, I have a feeling that 2893 (GMT) models are your best choice. Chieftang cyclops provides excellent results on them, and even if Finepics is MIA with his 2893 datewheel, I know for sure that Lello still has a few 2893 datewheels available.

Are they accurate to the genuine or it's not worth it?

All rep guarantee plastic card are unaccurate.

99% of them spell "certifidato di garanzia" instead of "certificato".

The remaining 1% spell "panerai panerai paneria" on the background pattern.

I completely missed that thread.

What I do know for sure is that the 090 rep uses a Seagull movement, and you can see for yourself there's a datewheel there!!

First pic is from Gran's guide to Seagull movements. Second pic I nicked from Po-Mart, but that's what's inside the 090 rep.

Say what you see!

Hi, thanks for your reply!

As I said in that other thread(s), the question arises from a try by Lello to make correct datewheels for the 090.

Should the 090 datewheel be a copy of a widely available datewheel, Lello could buy a bunch of those datewheels and have them reprinted with the correct font, that is a different matter from having the interested 090 owners disassemble their watch and send Lello their datewheel.

I too think that the movement in the 090 is from Seagull, and it is a good quality movement, exceptional value for the 090 price.

The problems are that it is not a seagull ST-25, and it is not a copy of the 2892.

Gunnar's pic shows the back of the ST-2502. Here is the front view and a blueprint (all pics taken from the Seagull's website):

As you can see, it is a dateless movement (with two subdials instead).

More recently, the ST-XX movements have been renamed TY-XX (TY standing for TSINLIEN YIQING CO.,LTD that is a trade company that is the only abroad agent of TIANJIN SEAGULL WATCH GROUP CORP).

The TY-2502 blueprint is the same as the ST-2502:

So, the movement in the 090 is not the ST (or TY) -2502.

It may be another Seagull movement, but I checked all Seagull movement pics available on the net and I was unable to find it.

Especially, it does not seem a ST/TY-25xx series, as all the 25xx movements I found (up to 2508) were dateless.

Whatever movement it is, it also does not look a copy of the 2892-A2 -- or at least their datewheels are completely different.

It is a pity to be unable to find if there are any movements with interchangeable datewheels with the 090, as the 090 is quite a widespread model and many members could be interested (hopely, about the 20 number needed to make the cost of a reprint worth).

It still is the 050.

Andrew or Josh.

Nice result! And Finepics' lume job is -- as always -- awesome.

I too love giving a new dignity to cheap watches.

Thankfully both carry the excellent Seagull ST-25 (2892 clone) movement.

I recently made an extensive search about this and I came to the conclusion that ST-25 has nothing to do with the 2892.

I also asked for your specific opinion:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=27383

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=27493

Please would you point me where you got your info about the ST-25 / 2892 similarites?

All ST-25xx models I saw do not even have the date. And the 090 movement and 2892-A2 datewheels are completely different size (verified).

Veeeeery nice watch!

he managed to scare the entire UK duck population into early migration but did manage to get some decent photos of my 000

And congrats also on your 2yr old son already so skilled in taking photos!

It's a PAM! It's a PAM!

And a huge one.

A fiddy, most likely?

The watch is to be sent in the next few days so I won't have it until next week. My photo skills aren't great and I'm not sure how to post photos so I will need to do a bit of research first.

I didn't find tritium - I found (bought) a genuine NOS tritium dial and hands. In fact I bought 2 'T' dials as I also have a 003 preA / A / early B series 003 dial and tritium hand set. These were not cheap, believe me, but they really are the 'mutts nuts'.

Wow, congrats!

Considering it is 'old' tritium, how its actual glowing is after all these years?

Thanks for your good wishes, dadog. I think I'll provide PAM with evidences of my payment.

Back to you now.

Please don't underestimate the issue about the room needed to add an extender -- or more specifically its bulging end.

Are you sure you have room enough? Do you have a spacer ring between your case and movement, or does the movement just sit right up the case?

Please have a look at this post about what The Zigmeister found on a similar occasion.

If there is no room enough to add the extender, you should get a whole stem replacement rather than an extender.

thanks again sssurfer.. ...dunno how i missed the extenders at cousins website?!!! maybe it's time to get glasses...

It's just their confusing page arrangement.

You are welcome, let us know how this comes out.

...And, honestly, I would like to have your same stem problem, as this would imply that PAM sent me the crown that I paid for since 10 months ago now...

Hi sssurfer..tnx for the answer...do you know where i could find such stem extension...I looked at cousins site, seems they don't have that kind of stem extension...now looking at ofrei, but have probl finding one...would appreciate if you could point to me where to find some...

My pleasure.

http://www.cousinsuk.com/default.aspx?disp...roductid=452167

I also seem to recognize that the 2nd item on this page (i.e. the MSA99.021 assortment):

http://www.ofrei.com/page754.html

does contain 120/120 extenders too.

Hi dadog, you need a 120/120 adapter.

120 is the stem size for the 6497 (manual movement, while PAM auto movements have size 90).

Your crown was made for a manual movement stem, so it must be 120 as well.

So you just need a 120 (male end, to put into the crown ) / 120 (female end, where to put the stem) adapter (it would better be called extension).

Please note that you have to cut both the stem and the adapter at the correct length so that the bulging end of the adapter (female end) rests placed inside the spacer ring.

ssurfer if you are reading this... any obvious flaws not counting the mag and date wheel?

Hi,

for your own health:

stay away from the 028.

There are 3 other obvious flaws apart those you said:

1) the crown is thin as usual on reps two years ago;

2) the PVD coating is too shining, as it is applied on a brushed case rather than a beadblasted case;

3) if you open the watch, the "OFFICINE PANERAI" engraving on the rotor is misspelled, reading "OFFICNE PANERAI".

Archibal also pointed out that the "A" in "PANERAI" on the dial is not 100%. I seem unable to spot any difference, but I have no gen to make a side-by-side comparison and I know that archibald is completely reliable, so I trust his word.

In the end, the 028 is a long long way to go along. You need a new crown, new beadblasting+PVD treatment, new datewheel, new cyclops, and possibly a new engraving on the rotor (or a whole new rotor, I am also considering this option). The "A" (if it really is unperfect) is completely out of chance of fixing it because of the hobnail dial.

Furthermore, none of the current cyclopses (either watchmen's or chieftang's) fits perfectly, as the 2892-A2 has an added small lens on the date window that makes them overpowered. So you need either to remove that lens (as kruzer00 did, I seem to remember) or to make a brand new cyclops with your own hand (as I did).

About the datewheel: Lello should be able to make correct 2892-A2 datewheels, provided there is demand enough for them.

But I doubt there will ever be demand enough.

On this watch I already spent waay more than 1000 bucks ('original' watch + moddings), and I still have to fix the rotor.

And I consider myself lucky from having been able to arrive to this point.

It's not by chance that, as far as I know, there are only two 028 reps this level around: kruzer00's and mine.

On the other hand, a good-modded 028 would likely make for one of the rarest reps around, possibly the rarest (even rarer than the famous 047 w/ russian movement -- about 4 pieces around). When I wear my 028 it's not a bad feeling to think that I am the only one wearing it on this side of the planet. In this sense it is even rarer than the gen...

BTW, the gen sells at about 10,000 - 13,000 USD on auctions when he surfaces out (not 80,000 as, e.g., a 203). So you should consider that a full modded 028 rep -- provided there will ever exist one -- would cost about 10% of the gen. That is about the same percentage than cheaper models (e.g., a full modded 111 is likely to cost about 400 USD vs about 4500 of the gen).

Now it's up to you.

I'd do what I have already done - I'm waiting for its safe return from The Zigmeister.

A genuine Panerai preA1 tritium dial, gen tritium hands, gen crown, gen crownguard, gen stem, Jimmy fu case/bezel, sapphire crystal, CDG decorated ETA/Unitas 6497 movement (same stripe pattern and sunburst wheels as genuine preA), cannon pin fix with ETA parts and a preA caseback from Davidsen.

I got mine fitted with Jimmy Fu's see through caseback so that I can admire the movement for a while but I'll fit the caseback later for accuracy.

I think that this is as close to a perfect PAM as it gets and the preA dial with its recessed fat tritium markers is just magic. I'll post pics when it arrives, as soon as I figure how to.

Great! I can't wait for the pics!

But... wasn't Tritium declared illegal? How did you find it?

That's a great saving on ebay cost!

Really thanks, kruzer, you rock!

Email sent.

Sorry for this trouble exactly on your cherry watch.

Those collectors used to have excellent reputation (I am confident that, should you ever decide to ask them for a replacement they will help), and I am concerned with all these issues that are coming out about their current performances.

I know that already in the past they had down times -- due to recurring serious health problems to one of them, I heard.

It maybe that also on these occasions it's something alike.

Nothing than can sooth your trouble, I understand.