By-Tor

Good question BT. If it's a Sea-Gull (the name is hyphonated BTW) it's a mystery to me. AFIK the only ladies size MVT they make is the 8 3/4L (19.8mm)

ST6D1 (and it's hand wind and skel variations) which is no ETA clone by a long shot. Answers anyone?

Col.

Yeah, I found out that it's gen ETA.

This is what BK says about it:

Yes, these come with 2678-2. 2678-2 is indeed a smaller movement used in ladies' watches. It's in no way an inferior movement. It has the same beat rate and power reserve. The plus is there's no chance for it to be a fake ETA 'cause none exists for 2678-2. wm9 will ensure the overall weight of the watch is as close to gen's by use of a proper weighted movement ring, no less than other versions with 2836-2. I'm also hoping 2678-2 has better, more even datewheel because I have seen enough 2836-2's that don't have every date square in the date window.

I'm surprised about how unimportant people think the etched crown is on the crystal, I would have thought this was one of the very important things to have (and have correct) in a rep?

Probably because most etched crowns on reps have been oversized and god-awful. And keep in mind that lots of modern Submariners still don't have the etching, including the SEL ones. They only started using the etched crown in what... 2005 or so? 16610 had been unchanged for a LONG time until they started to put the rehaut engraving there.

There's no way to determine the age and serial of your watch without removing the bracelet, so with or without etching... it doesn't really matter (imho).

I don't know if it's gen or rep, but I wouldn't mind wearing it, either way. This model is super cool (although I'd prefer it with a steel bracelet).

Hah ha! That's my single most favorite boast...........before there was a 'By-Tor' review there was a noob of the same nick PMing me about a Black dialed 16613 review I did.............. You definately took the 'Review' to a level though! Of course the pics are awesome, but I think because 'English' is not your first language, you don't waste words, and all the pertinent infos are there, and crystal clear, with no unecessary BS................

Could be that too Dems... but I keep them brief and striking for purpose. "Easy reading" is my goal. I leave the indepth reviews to the experts of that style (people like Ziggy, Toad and sd4k, etc.).

I usually just set up my studio, shoot the pics and explain why I got that particular rep, concentrating more on the good points. I also study the watch I'm reviewing throughly (the gen counterpart) and then just point out the problems (if any).

Most time consuming thing used to be the photos. Not anymore... when I was starting 1 out of 40-50 pics came out good. Now I'd say 6 out of 10 are usable, as I've found very good studio lighting balance. I usually just pick the photo with best and most desirable angle. I squeezed out the WM9 v2 review in a few hours. It's still a lot of fun for me... although I've ran out of reps that I really desire after (for now at least). But this hobby is even more satisfying when you learn to appreciate what you already have. I don't have to buy new watches all the time... it's not about "more and more"... au contrary, it's even more satisfying to look at your collection and think "Now I'm finished with it... love 'em all."

I feel the same about gold. I love it (in principle) but I don't feel comfortable wearing it. TT Sub with college/T-shirt and jeans... well it's ok, but somehow "out of place". If I were more like a "collector type" I'd definitely own one. But I only keep the watches that I wear regularly.

PS: Most underrated Zep album: In Through The Outdoor.

Cheers mate.

Dems... good taste in watches & music! I remember in the old RWG... I think it was spring 2005, when I drooled your black TT Sub pics.

There's just something about the TT Sub. It's a bit gaudy but definitely not tasteless... unlike most bling Rollies. I've owned/reviewed 4 of them... and I think today I'd choose the black (if I had to buy one again). Hmm... not sure, the blue is really nice too... the Noob version is stunning (even without mods)

Mmm... loved it.

...and now you have it!

Wear it well By-Tor

Thanks Stephane!

Nice update...too bad you had to break the "8 rep" rule.

You've got quite the collection of 4th hands. Aside from the gen, they're all 2836's (mix of IHS and CHS if I remember right) that you've no problems with...correct? I'm still a little worried about getting a GMT because of the movement...but you're experiences are instilling confidence in me to take the plunge.

Thanks Toad.

I've owned at least 10 reps with WHS 2836 movements and I've never had one single problem with them... not ONE. I don't know where this bs about them being unreliable comes from, but this false information dies hard apparently.

2 out of my 3 CHS watches have been really, really problematic. One is currently dead and trashable, and I gave it to my watch guy. WHS and CHS = two completely different builds. WHS ETA = reliable, CHS ETA = very unreliable. That's the basic summary, based on my own experiences.

Edit: I've owned (at least briefly) 4 CHS watches, and 3 were problematic. Forgot the one I once returned to PT. I don't know why my beloved ExpII works... but then again I never use the independent hour hand on it.

sweeet, love the photos, - what is the backlit red thing

Thanks Pho.

It's my gf's candle holder... some sort of "artsy glass" or whatever. She has many of them in different colors. The red one is my favorite... it decorates the photos nicely, especially when you're shooting black and white watches.

Updated the post. Enjoy!

Another U.K. mate on youtube saw my video and turned me on to 'IT BITES'...have you heard much of them? I hear they backed up Marillion...who backed up Rush...etc. I had not heard of It Bites before but they have some impressive pre-dream theater moments. The guitarist sounded a bit like Holdsworth (one of my all time favorites).

No... never heard of them. I gotta check them out... I'm always looking for something new. Marillion I love... the Fish-era only though. Hogarth-era has its followers, and I appreciate the band... but new Marillion doesn't have "balls". It's the same problem with many "new wave" Brit bands: Muse, Coldplay, Radiohead, etc. Porcupine Tree is great though.

Ive seen King Crimson twice with Belew and met him afterwards. Then there is the ultimate in prog 'Escher like' music...Gentle Giant. Man they were nuts.

Both bands are among my favorites. I'll never get tired of Crimson's Red... I think I listened it just last week. Starless is a beautiful but creepy song which always gives me chills. Acquiring the Taste is my favorite GG album. Fripp's solo work "Exposure" is on my playlist now... I'm trying to decide whether I like it or not. Always the same thing with anything Fripp does... the guy is a loon.

No, I don't play. I used to play classic guitar when I was a kid... but then sports (hockey and boxing, and later bodybuilding) started to interest me more. Always been a hardcore listener only... lots of my friends are players though, including my youngest little brother, who's very good bass player.

Cheers man!

PS: Two recommendations: Get Camel's "Mirage" and "Moonmadness" (if you don't already have those). You'll love them... I guarantee you that.

Just added this link to the Breitling Guide. Thanks Bazz!

(RUSH RULES...Ive seen them many times in the 80's!)

Me playing Genesis, YES and Zappa on youtube:

Thanks... enjoyed it. Great playing man!

My favorite Genesis albums:

Foxtrot

Selling England by the Pound

Seconds Out (excellent live album)

Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

Wind & Wuthering

And then there were three (very underrated... Burning Rope is a superb song)

My favorite Yes albums:

Going For the One

Close to the Edge

underrated Yes albums: "Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe" & "Union".

Zappa: Too many to list.

That's a great TT Sub. Congrats... looks amazing!

Personally, I prefer the Noobfactory version over MBK any day... but MBK has some small advantages which you have nicely added to this watch.

THIS article compares the "Noob" version to the genuine. As you can see the dial is very close.

Definitely one of the tough calls for me to not keep my review watch... on the other hand I love the TT Sub... but on the other hand I find it a bit "too much".

Great pics, thanks for sharing!

Stoppit...stoppit... Ahgg my eyes...... AND not you too BT, getting involved in this desecration.

Actually thought you had more taste. I couldn't even store those images in my 'puter...lest it went out on strike!

Let alone I inadvertently opened the wrong file... is there anything available, like a porn filter, for these abominations?

O/S

Ok... I admit... I didn't find these pics from Ebay. I put "Pamela Anderson sucking horse d**k" to the Google search string, and these just popped up.

Congrats man, what a stunner!

I love this wrist shot!

How about a quick lesson in

How to ruin a classic, part 1

Submariner anyone?

This lovely classic & modded GMT from Ebay... $12K.

Graham,

it's a good rep but nothing special. The same seconds at '6 Daytona that all our dealers sell.

If I were you, I wouldn't order the watch from that site. Go to the LINKS section and pick up one of the trusted dealers instead.

You might want to take a look at the Daytona Seconds at '6 REVIEW so you know what to except with this replica.

Happy hunting and welcome to the forum!

PS: I moved this to the correct section, which is called "The Rolex Area".

Thanks Gentlemen!

The small ladies' ETA / Seagull (whatever it is) seems to be an excellent timekeeper. +2 / 24h.

Does anyone remember what was the exact model number/name/type of this movement again?

Amazing watch & amazing pics Robbie. That last pic nails it... you're the king of wrist shots.

Awesome Links guys... and Ubi's Yachtie is almost perfect. Robbie's wristies... amazing!

This is locked on my wrist for now.

Thanks again, all.

So does the Clark crystal have the correct sized coronet etched into it? Or is there no coronet etching at all?

I don't know. I took some dial shots and the etching wasn't visible in any of them. It's possible that it actually IS there, I didn't even look for it. Personally, I don't really care either way... I'm just happy that the huge etching isn't there anymore (although it didn't really bother me a lot, either).

Thanks guys.

HERE is quick and dirty gen vs. rep dial comparison (gen on the left). My photo has been taken from different angle.

ROLEX and "m" in 300m aren't perfect, but everything else is very close, even the coronet and the new style "S" in SUBMARINER... which mimics the D-serial Sub dial. Also the thicker, new D-serial dial print has been done nicely.

 
 
 

 
 
Okay, here it is... the "Super Sub v2". Watchmaker9 and bklm1234 have squeezed out a remarkable 16610. Actually, the version 1 was the revolutionary one, which already took the 16610 to another level. Version 2 just improves the "missing bits". Personally, I think this is more like an "upgrade" rather than completely new watch.
 
People who currently own the v1 don't have to bury their head in the sand. It's still an excellent replication, fundamentally the same watch as this... and I don't think it's even necessary to upgrade unless you're a hardcore Rolex freak.
 
READ THE REVIEW OF WM9 version 1 HERE
 
I was more than satisfied with the v1, and I thought long and hard trading it and upgrading to v2. But at the end of the day I couldn't resist these small but extremely nice improved details that the v2 version carries.
 

 
 
The most significant improvement on the v2 is the dial, which has gen-like superluminova hour indices. What I really liked about the v1 was the "Flat S", which represented rarer 16610 dial variation very nicely. Unfortunately the new WM9's come with standard S, which (of course) is just as accurate.
 
While the v1 dial was very good, I gotta admit the v2 dial is simply superb. The font looks excellent, even in the macro shots I've taken. WM9 v2's from bk have Clark Crystals, which fixes the oversized etched coronet problem. The date font and magnification are perfect.
 
 

 
 
 
I was really impressed when I put the watch side-by-side with my genuine Rolex GMT Master II. The luminous abilities are 100% identical. As you can see the (much improved) bezel pearl has been superlumed as well.
 

 
 
The crown is a bit oversized, which (along with SELs that are only 95% correct) remain pretty much the only remaining flaws on the v2 (besides the vertical crown position). Coronet on the bracelet clasp is perfect as well, and the operation is sturdy and very gen-like. This was also the first Rolex replica (that I've seen) that has an extra link for gigantic wrists. I had to remove one link for my '8 wrist. Another upgraded detail is the hollow link bracelet (v1 had inaccurate solid middle links).
 
 

 
 
The wrist presence is superb. It was actually superb in the v1 already, but the super luminova and improved pearl are something that a Rolex WIS will notice right away.
 

 
 
 
Magically, the WM9 reps seem to fix things that we have always complained about. Ubiquitous bought his Yacht-Master just recently, which is ridiculously better than any of the previous versions. I'm sure the upcoming Sea Dweller will be an instant smash hit as well. People have awaited for a good replication of the 16600 for years. All the previous Chinese replications have been very disappointing but now we at least have hope.
 
I haven't praised dealers a lot in my articles, because most of our sellers always have access to the same quality reps anyway. I'll make an exception with bklm1234, because he's not just a "dealer". These watches go through quality control and get even more additional improvements by him (like the Clark Crystal on my watch). BK has estabilished himself in all replica forums with his excellent communication, knowledge and superb products. If you're looking for a replica Rolex, don't even think about ordering from anyone else. BK can get the absolutely best reps of every modern Rolex model, including the legendary Noobfactory Explorer II's. I'm not recommending him because he's my friend or anything, just stating a fact here.
 
Without a doubt this is the best ever Rolex replica, and features like the super luminova dial must put make WM9v2 one the top-5 replicas ever released. I'm really happy with the watch and it finalizes my Rolex collection nicely.
 
"Who has the best Sub?" has always been the biggest cliché of the replica forums... a question that we never have been able to answer easily... a bit like Monty Python's "What's the meaning of life?" Now we finally we have an answer (for the first question).
 
Many thanks to my mate Watcher for the "delivery help". A great guy, great member, great WIS. I hope you all liked this review, it was a pleasure to write and photograph.
 

 
 
 
CLICK FOR WM9 WALLPAPER

REVIEW UPDATE MARCH, 2010
They eventually released a v3 version of the WM9 Sub. Is it even better? Community's premier 16610 expert Tribal thinks no. Read his thoughts from here.

REVIEW UPDATE AUGUST, 2012

Some new modifications to WM9.

Yeah... long live the Noobmariner!

Yeah, the second one is gen as well... but as you said it has a few aftermarket parts. Crystal and pearl (probably the whole insert) stick out as non-genuine first.