Victoria

Let's make something real clear here...

There already is a committee on RWG...

Finally, TT.

People understand about letting threads go, and letting people vent, but it was about time, IMHO, that one of you guys said this.

if we all are here to effect change for the better then we need to work toward a common goal.. win .. win .. not so much "ban" anyone

You know what? Over at RWI they have a "situation" where their founder has to all intents and purposes absconded from their forum, with people's money. Now, he's a person who did a lot for them, and they feel he must be in distress to have done that without so much as a word (the other mods have taken over, and vowed to replace the moneys or goods...out of pocket...).

And yet they said were he ever to return, he would be welcomed back to the fold, which I found astonishing -- both in the best sense (because of his reputation was obviously so good before, that it carries him forward in honour; and their trust in him, which speaks the world of them as decent people), and in the not so good sense.

But I'd like to see one person here stick up for "the cartel" if they were to do that. No one would. And rightly so.

A committee on RWG for a case-by-case basis of grievances, or an eye on what transpires in deals with ALL dealers, including our in-house dealers, plus strap vendors, etc. Great. Count me in to shoulder any burden of responsibility, to use JFK's ringing phrase.

But not a committee whose sole purpose is eventually and merely to "ban" vendors, after one miscue, or a dozen.

I wouldn't even want Paul banned just because I've soured on him, with good reason (see related thread).

PRACTICAL SUGGESTION:

Can a RWG computer whizz figure out a form which we fill out, with a series of questions asked online (perhaps in its own forum, which can be reviewed by VIPs or all members, as part of this forum's purpose), such as:

Collector's name?

Date of beginning transaction (when you bought goods), date of ending transaction (when you received goods)

Emails answered promptly?

Problems with items' received quality control?

Grievances answered by email promptly?

Refund offered, return suggestion, product reshipped?

Out of pocket expenses by buyer?

Did the new item arrive in good order?

Rate this transaction, from 1 (extremely dissatisfied) to 10 (extremely satisfied)

Etc.

ADDENDUM: If anything from 1-3 is given, obviously the worst ratings, then there could be an area where you could present supporting documentation, as well as photo uploads of the items in question -- that will reduce just bad-mouthing on all fronts.

This is just me thinking as I go, not some rubric of how things should be. But since we're flinging suggestions, and the word ban around, let's do things right, before a good idea becomes a bad one.

Seriously?? Seriously?? I feel dumber just having watched that. What do South Africa and Asia have to do with any of that?

DUDE, she's 15, 16 tops. Yes, I was bright when I was 16 too, but let's not forget how it was when we were young.

Anyway, why do Americans love doing this to themselves? You think the French ever put up videos of their populace being dumb, like Jaywalking skits?

Ask a typical Frenchman on the street to pick out Tulsa or Tucson on a map. I'll wait.

Stupid? Dunno about that, V...I think he had some really good arguments there

Question: Why do all Eastern Europeans sound like him? No, seriously. Even the women. Tired of yelling after busses all day?

Methinks SHE may have trouble locating the US on a globe.

"No honey, not your globes, over here... the blue, roundy thingy."

OKAY! I sense a little gender imbalance in this thread, regarding stupidity. So here is a Youtube segment called Bodybuilder TV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97kr5tqUQog

(What's up with the chicken?)

And especially so, when they happen to be from Dubai.

Life's a [censored], sometimes....

Wow, you can't say [censored], but you can say ass? Where's the logic, my friends?

TeeJay.... I commend you on your presentation of your posts .... you have presented it in an educated way .. and kept control .. thank you ...

This cannot be stated enough. TeeJay is a man of passion about this topic, but didn't, that I saw or interpreted, ONCE stoop to insulting those he disagreed with.

And may I say, it is he alone that has had to defend his position, given the the title header. Sure, others are in agreement and also expressed similar opinions about LWL (to use SSsurfer's acronym). But it is TeeJay who is front and centre in this debate, and I'd say his demeanour remains the same -- on point.

Just my 1 cent

Keep the change.

Along with being stranded on a desert island with Slay, this is what Clive's worst nightmares are about...

Let's just say she wouldn't make my Top 10 people to clone genetically (she even slightly resembles Fugly sister act, Jessica Simpson!).

But you know, posing questions of these Misses in these beauty pagaents is so not fair. It's like going up to contestants in the Mr. Apollo contest, and asking them to point out Dubai on a globe.

Instead of crushing a globe between their thighs, obviously.

we should trade my mb tw for your vco

TOO LATE!!!!!!!!

And yes, there is a perfectly rational even comical explanation of my profuse usage of the exclamation mark -- even though we all know any exclamation mark used in excess of 5 times is a sign of a psychotic episode.

For pertinance and clarity, she's actually worse than me.

I love ya' honey!

US-AMERICANS!! She just won the South American vote, right there!

(I'm not kidding...big problem..."American"...inferiority complex...argh...I am beginning to ramble like her...and in conclusion SOUTH AFRICA!)

I'll surely do (as long as my current wife will let me to -- she knows I am a terrible canasta player ).

What about a game of bridge, or chess, or MtG, or a kumite?

Chess sounds sexy.

Although I'd prefer a game of Scopone, like the conde or marchese Vittorio di Sica (who was always playing a conde or marchese) played with a little boy during a whole film, whose title I sadly forget. And he's my favourite director!

Chess or scopone. Sounds like a good way to be captured by the man of my dreams.

Decided to keep this watch because the impressive nature of it. Nice flush cannon pin and superior lume. Any strap recommendations?

GOOD DECISION! I have drooled over these photos since you posted them.

I was salivating over this deal of 2 ammo strap for the Fiddy size, and one "Famous Strap" which in their parlance means anything by Mario Paci. Both for $100!! Jebus. But I am rationing myself, so can't pull the trigger. That is an awesome deal, though. I've spent hundreds on one ammo strap alone.

Again, alter urls from xx to tt:

hxxp://www.network54.com/Forum/353393/thread/1188065632/last-1188065632/FS-++2+Straps+for+the+price+of+1%21%21

And don't look now, but Greg Stevens is having a massive blowout:

hxxp://www.network54.com/Forum/353393/thread/1188060298/last-1188067779/GregStraps+Anniversary+Sale+MegaPost%21%21%21%21%21

This is a great Fiddy strap, as are all his selections. Drool away, Doc!

Switched straps for my new Toscana Capretto - Nice strap at a nice price What do you think Vic

I got the Grigio too! I think if it had been a TOUCH darker (leather/thread), it would've been perfect with the bigger bezel brushed PAMs, like the Arktos or the 024a, but as it is, I love it. Congrats!

@Pugwash: So, what was the difference?

Does anyone remember the scene in Amelie, where she walks the blind beggar down the street and passes all the candy shops, butchers, and bakeries? Were all those shops actually on the same street in Montmartre, or was that simply creative editing & if so, does anyone know the name of the street?

From the IMBD "filming locations" section in the Amelie entry:

Abbesses, Paris 18, Paris, France

(subway)

Canal Saint-Martin, Paris 10, Paris, France

Cologne, North Rhine - Westphalia, Germany

Eaubonne, Val-d'Oise, France

(Amelie's father's home)

Gare de Lyon, Paris 12, Paris, France

(station)

Gare de l'Est, Paris 10, Paris, France

(station)

Gare du Nord, Paris 10, Paris, France

(station)

La Chapelle, Paris 10, Paris, France

(subway)

Lamarck-Caulaincourt, Paris Metro, Paris 18, Paris, France

Montmartre, Paris 18, Paris, France

Paris, France

Port de Lilas, Le M

My guess is that Panerai hit the West Coast first for a number of the reasons you mentioned. Celebrities wear them and then the execs and wannabe execs follow like sheep.

And apparently, car salesman are HUGE into Panerai in the West.

There is one chap on Risti who fits that bill, and when someone snarled about used car salesmen being a bunch of rip-off artists, all the car salesmen on the board challenged it indignantly in their replies. I counted about 5 or 6 of them.

Do WE on RWG have 5 or 6 car salesmen who post/read us regularly, I wonder? And that's on a non-speciality watch forum.

West Coast will tend toward blingier watches anyhow.

But that's the thing. When I first saw a Panerai watch on the forums, I was put off by how unblingy it was. It has minimalist lines, and tiny details which separate it one from the other.

I cringe just thinking of that Radiomir with the diamonds for markers.

Okay, it's blingy in the sense of it being outsized, and show-offy, but other than that, it has understated lines.

Also although the larger sized watches are increasingly catching on it still naturally drew a younger crowd and between tech and hollywood there is a lot of upscale youth. I also wouldn't underestimate the impact of the larger Japanese population on the West Coast. Panerai is one of the most favored watches of young Japanese in Japan.

YES! In retrospect, now I realise what those "big watches" were in the streets of Tokyo.

On the East Coast it has taken longer. PAM watches really got notice when Ralph Liphshitz (oops, I mean Lauren)

Well, if Joseph Marie Fran

Just my own personal opinion, people are free to take it or leave it as they wish, but, I personally feel, that if someone cannot be trusted to tell the 100% truth, 100% of the time, then they are liars, and should be acknowledged and treated as such.

But see, this is a kind of attitude that is either seen as noble, or crankish in life.

I'm not saying you are either, TeeJay. I value your opinion, and have seen the person you are in the few months I have been on. That's not it, at all.

This whole thread, however, is about what we as individuals can tolerate from collectors, trusted or not. We make compromises with them about their fudges, their mistakes, their claims.

E.g.: If they drop-ship or not, which one collector ASSURES me he doesn't, but do I believe him? I don't know. I would like to though.

And that's it right there. I WANT to believe him because he's been an exceptional merchant to me, trusting me as a client.

The ball bounces both ways, you know.

How many times, never mentioned by people here out of embarrassment maybe because they didn't buy the tracking, did a watch we send them not arrive in their destination? The collectors ate that cost.

And you don't hear them whining about scammer-buyers, as I am sure they get ALL the time.

No, they stay silent, perhaps out of simply not having time to post anymore, or it just not looking professional to out these people on boards, whereas WE have a medium like rep forums to complain about them all the time.

Boy do we, too.

Just look at what I have said about Paul, whereas he's never once presented his side of the story (there are ALWAYS two sides of the story, as we recently rediscovered, right?).

So, there it is. I think the thread is dying a death -- famous last words! -- but the crux of the matter is that either you are comfortable dealing with increased profit-margins by businessmen, and can tolerate a few squiggles of truths now and again, so long as the collectors are reputable in general, and offer good customer service.

Doesn't mean you can't out them, and in fact, should when they are wrong, TeeJay.

But just know that it's almost a losing battle because they feed us our addictions...

You're like the Don Quixote of the rep world, my darling. It must not be pleasant to be in that position, how ever noble, but I respect your efforts and convictions nonetheless, without sharing them.

In the Kruzer00 thread about Panerais beginning to be noticed by dealers in NYC (a followup of sorts to the "It looks like Panerais are the "IT" watch in the Hamptons" thread), I mentioned the geographic importance of that marque in the West of the US, versus the East and South.

As ever, that was an opinion based on observation, but I acknowledge I could well be wrong. So my question to you is:

Do you live in a town or city or even country where people are into watches?

That is, appreciate them as status-symbols or mechanical wonders, as well as comment on them even if they don't know what model you are wearing, etc.

I recently read a thread on RWI where a Singaporean poster said that Singapore is watch-conscious, whereas in Malaysia no one gives a rip about watches. And the other day online, I read a similar comment from a TimeZone poster about Denver not at all being a watch town. Again, his or her opinion, but I found just hearing that fascinating.

Given the international flavour of RWG, I think this topic could yield many interesting anecdotes, so please post a reply with your experiences.

My experience:

I have lived in many countries, and I would have to say that Japan was the most interested in luxury watches, given the amount of questions one gets from complete strangers, and the plethora of watch mags and ADs there, whereas Brazil was the least (because of many reasons, not just financial).

The French adore watches, whereas in Britain, one can find people unusually partial to and knowledgeable about one marque or another, and stay that way for the rest of their lives.

South Florida is not a watch "town". Florida is a car State and jewelry State, BIG TIME.

But no, not necessarily watch-centric like Los Angeles, which has a very similar "vibe" as a warm-climate touristy area. Maybe JFreeman or Ssabripo and others can chime in with their impressions on SoFla.

I have one of our esteemed members visiting in New York and so we made it a point to visit the Diamond District (47th Street in New York). I had not been there in at least 6 months. And here was the shocker, two of the larger grey market jewelers had virtually dozens of Panerais from A's thru J's, special edition, etc. I did pick up their cards (and they did compliment my Ziggified 29 - ). Both dealers had far more inventory than anyone I have ever seen on on Risti or Via. I was so amazed I forgot to stop by Gary's booth who has been the New York standard on Risti for a couple of years. I did ask the two dealers and they both said they are far and away the hottest sellers this Summer. So the days of never being able to find the more desirable gen PAM's on the East Coast are over.

Fascinating!

Allow me to segue a question about the East Coast v. West Coast Panerai interest.

Surely, to anyone who has ever read the Panerai-centric US boards, you will note that Panerai is hugely popular in California, Arizona, Nevada, etc. Not so much in the East Coast, with Panerais only just now really taking off (you hear much less of GTGs on Risti in the East Coast, than anything remotely approaching San Francisco, Carlsbad, LA, etc.).

I know what people will reply.

In part, that this has to do with the laid-back, niche quality of the Panerai, which is a sporty watch, not perceived as a dressy, status-conscious watch unlike Patek Phillipe, AP, Vacheron, etc. which are huge in NYC, because it's a status-conscious town par excellence.

Then there's the Sly Stallone/Schwarzenegger/Hollywood factor, which blossomed specifically in the West because of this.

But EVEN SO, I'm shocked at this imparity given the international crowd one has in the East Coast, the amount of money which flows there, and the backgrounds of the people, what with the amount of Italians like Stallone there, especially.

And in the South? We won't even talk. Only once did I think someone had picked me out for wearing a Panerai. It seems no one who is "just folks" in the whole of South Florida knows what watch I am wearing (exaggeration! I know, but so far, the truth).

I have yet to experience that tingling Panerai-moment of raising a fist with a PAM on it, in silent, happy acknowledgement from a fellow Panerista.

I don't care if the man in the street doesn't know about Panerai. Half of me is glad of that, in fact...

But I do care that the marque is not better known by watch aficionados, like those in NYC!

Guys, just in case any of you are interested in Clive's suggestion:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leather-balsam-leather...1QQcmdZViewItem

"Leather balsam leather polish Lord Sheraton 75" @GBP 2.99

Dead cheap I'd call that. Bought two, not realising he had only 3. Had I known, would just have bought the one...

By the way, the *bayer has two varieties of the Lord Sheraton. It's the one in the white box not the yellow which is the one for leathers. I asked.

GPF strap VDB

Ahh, the one you had made? Very nice.

The whole watch is fantastic! It looks suitably aged, and your strap is the perfect choice to offset the numerals.

I hope my children look back on their childhood with memories so alive.

I know they will.

My parents are both professionals, and all during my childhood, they were rarely able to give me a lot of time -- my father especially. That's a big price people pay in the modern age, when you are go-getting types, wanting successful careers.

Even so, every Sunday was family day. They condensced 6 days worth of fun, memories, physical affection (very important), and family intimacy into that one day. My mother established a hard rule -- no one argued on a Sunday, and never at the dinner table.

We saved that for the other days.

I think your parents did a wonderful thing that day in creating a lifetime memory for you. You have a way of sharing that is very special. I hope you write more and share again. Cheers

Thank you so much, Raijor.

Whenever I saw news footage of the mothers going crazy over Cabbage Patch dolls in the 1980s, I laughed, agreeing it was crazy consumerism.

But a little part of me understood 'cause I imagine disappointing your child is the worst feeling a person can have.

I don't understand your Lexol problem. Lexol is a wonderful leather conditioner. There are many different types of Lexol as that is just a brand name. So which product don't you like and why?

(First, thanks for the tip of bending the strap above)

Lexol has an odd smell, and as mentioned by Lanikai, it tends to darken lighter leathers (which I have always felt don't ever stay as light afterwards). I don't mind patina, but a darker look due to chemicals I do mind.

Mind you, I've used Lexol only a handful of times on things other than straps.

I forgot to add that Meltonian Neutral is a leather protectant/dressing. It is not made to get stains off of leather.

Definitely. But as I had nothing else...

The only product I would trust to remove dirt stains is Lexol ph balanced leather cleaner. And I say dirt stains, because most liquid stains can come out with drying and gentle rubbing.

But not, would you say, in the case of Clive's ruined, beautiful strap above? That seems irreperable.

@the guys above: Thanks for the tips!

Simply amazing, QUALITY collection rather than a million rubbishy pieces. There are some people who buy reps and leave stuff as is, but I see you are a perfectionist. No wonder your shots in the Wristies are so crisp!

I also ask, what next on the agenda?

Am I being ignored?????

I'll admit I'm new here, but for a site that seems to be pretty friendly, I'm gettin no love.

Is there some great unspoken here?

Just want some help acquiring a good rep like this one

Please....

Somebody........?

Soonermatt, as you can imagine, people in the forum field questions like this several times per day. It's not a question of unfriendliness, but of hoping the person might hit "Search" first, since the questions are all answered there.

Such info is often confidential at that, because of the nature of the business. I'm sure you get me.

And although I personally think people should be given leeway as newbies, but just so that you know, the VIP upgrade provides you with tonnes of info, immediately.

Good luck!

Hi, RWG~

I'm new to this forum but not new to the rep scene. Some of you may recongnize me from RWI or even at repgeek.

HEY JIRO!

May I take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum, and to compliment you on your amazing watch choices. You have extremely varied, and from what I can see, good taste in watches. Not only that, but you also have good energy, posting great comments.

Today, RWG is a better place for you having joined. And even if it turns out we don't agree on one thing, I'll stay think that!

Enjoy your stay.