TeeJay

yesterday he got the watch back after raising hell at the AD.... they returned it to him untouched but the lug screws and caps missing! they claim they don't have them and won't replace them. a$$holes. anyone have a dead pasha for parts?

I'd threaten to sue them for the screws and caps. I assume your friend's wife was given some kind of receipt for the service charge she paid, it would not be hard to prove that the watch was taken in intact, and if they deny it, they will be lying. A friend here had a similar situation when he bought a leather jacket, which had actually been sold with a tear in the leather. The company denied selling it in that condition, but his parents stumped up the cash to take the company to court, and the company was then ordered to replace the damaged jacket. Regardless of the watch being a rep or not, the fact remains that it was your friend's personal property, and he is entitled to receive it back from a store with all the parts it had when it first went in... Best of luck to them

I'm looking forward to the upcoming "Caution regards using Post-It Notes in watch movement repair" thread (I'm teasing)

Imagine their faces if you took that to the AD?! Especially if they unfolded the Post-It Note and it is said "must remember: repair watch"

It should be noted that the Post-It notes were only inserted between the 'pendulum' and retainer while the plastic cooled. They were then removed, and the pendulum had space to rotate

I think you were dancing with the girls in your Avitar, and the heat lamp is just a cover up...

RG

I wish Depending on how things go when I get to swapping the parts round, I might have to send it to you for a re-lume, as when I last dried it, the lamp baked the dial lumes a murky orange color (yet the hand lumes were still unaffected) so depending on how it looks with the blue bezel, a re-lume might be in order

Speaking of............ doesn't one of those girls look like Miss Understood?

The girls in the avatar are, an exotic dancer who went under the stagename Melody Pantera, Cheryl Cole, and Christina Ricci. The girls in my signature strip are Kristanna Loken and Cheryl Cole.

I noticed today that my 2531.80 had stopped, which did not make any sense, as I had not taken it off in a while. Fearing the worst, I opened the back, and discovered a rather amusing (If annoying) problem. The mechanism is held in place with a white plastic retainer (which I've heard also make good shock absorbers) but one side of the retainer had warped, and was preventing the movement's 'pendulum' (is that what they're called?) from rotating fully. It had obviously heated up and then sagged under gravity, when I last dried the watch under a very hot lamp. My sollution, was to re-heat the watch under the lamp, and I then jammed some folded up Post-It notes between the 'pendulum' and the retainer to create a suitable gap. I then chucked the watch in the freezer for a while. When I removed it, it had cooled, and, although the retainer had not returned to it's previous shape (it's a tad warped) it had enough clearance for the 'pendulum' to rotate freely.

Consider this a warning for anyone else who dries their watches under a hot lamp

Nah nah nah, I have in storage a pair of original X-Men Ruby Juliets with the special edition case all BNIB. I'll sell them to you for $600!

/Tim

Very Tempting Not a justifiable expense though as mine are still in wearable condition

From a style point of view, (in my opinion)

I just mean that panerai and iwc are so elegant and classic.

Oakley is mid america frat boy.

Nothing wrong with either but you would not have combos with chilean sea bass.

Again, what kind of sunglasses should someone wear with a Paneral? Not everyone wants to look like a Top Gun extra (and I'd also rather go mad from migraines than buy a pair of RayBans )

Well, at least know can claim it is the wrong shade of blue.

No, just that it shouldn't exist

Have to admit, that PO Chrono is looking pretty sharp. But, I thought the idea of wearing a decent rep was for people to not know it was a rep... Wearing a watch that should not exist (unless you have a Bill Gates bank balance and can make Omega/Rolex/Whoever make you a custom watch, it's going to stand out as much as the kid in the 'peice o [censored] Honda' (points for the movie reference;) ) wearing the gold and diamond Presidential

Please guys....do not wear oakleys with your panerai's and iwc's and the like.

That would be more of a tell of a rep than any flaw in the watch

What kind of sunglasses should someone wear with a Panerai? Not everyone who wears a Breitling wants to dress like an extra from Top Gun

I have to wear wraparound sunglasses like my Juliets, or I wind up with a migraine. To be honest, they are the best pair of sunglasses I have ever owned. I bought then back in 2000 when X Men was released, and 7 years on, they're still virtually as good as new. I keep meaning to send them back to Oakley to get the nose-bridge tightened up, but other than that, they are still as good as the day I bought them. I had a pair of RayBan Predators which fell apart within six months... For me, sunglasses are a medical necessity, not a fashion accessory

I hope you didn't take offense to my post, because none was intended. I think posting on Paneristi moronic in a number of ways. I just thought that person did it fairly cleverly. As with all parody, the non-ironic responsis of the targets is always more fun than the actual piece.

What I was trying to say jovially was that Richemont group, the Federation of Swiss Watchmakers, etc. and their undoubtedly well funded lobbying arms in every Western country (and probably China) are doing all they can to stop the replica trade--a few [censored] off watch geeks can't do much to add to those efforts aside from the nasty personal stuff you mention. I would venture to say that we are all on report--the gen makers don't need a Paneristi to find out who our dealers are, and if they can use Google they are well aware of RWG. And I'm sure they're bright enough to know that shutting the entire RWG/RWI/TRC community down, which they couldn't do anyway, would do nothing significant to protect their trademarks.

As far as some Paneristi going after people personally--I'm not sure how we get from posting a fake watch on a gen forum to nasty personal attacks online. It seems to me if a Paneristi is dopey and nast enough to go after a RWG memeber, they don't need an excuse. They'll be over here trolling for names as I type. I'm not going to live my onlife life in fear that one of my RWG pals is going to induce some guy over at paneristi to come after my Imageshack account--which I would use only for watches, by the way, if I had one.

I didn't find it personally offensive, but I have observed that there are people in the community who do not seem to grasp consequences beyond their own actions, for example, the people having a go at Pug about not getting his brother to ship over a load of watches on the cheap. As far as they were concerned, he was being unreasonable about not wanting to help out (but as pointed out, why should he) and seemed totally oblivious of the logistics of things like the cash handling. This is why I was pointing out what can happen when people get [censored] at what someone thinks is a reasonable joke, and then starts a personal vendetta.

Sure, some Paneristi reporting the dealers here are not going to much difference with regards the entire world wide trade in replica Panerai, but, it would make life extremely unpleasant for those dealers. It would also make it harder for the people in this community to get their watches, and unless that is really spelled out, some people are not going to think of those possible consequences, and decide to go troll the other site for a joke. Having seen trolling attacks, that in the US would result in criminal prosecution, I simply trying to prevent someone inadvertantly causing such a thing to happen here

Hmmm, I've already got a black ABS submariner, I suppose a translucent one wouldn't hurt for the collection

Hmmm, I see. I checked it and yes it pretty cheap what is sells but that was not my source...

Mine was a "one time" chinese seller of eBay (that disappeared the day after after I contact him).

He sent me to a crazy site with all the watches that he could get and I poked twice: maybe one of the reps could have been not to bad, but the idea was to get them in hands to actually touch the difference with our dealers watches.

The kind of site I visited looked like this : http://www.pickyourgoods.com/productdisplay.php?sortid=3

Having said that the bracelets of the Rolex are quite good. Spare parts at least ;-)

Stay tuned I have a nery very bad rep of a B&M Capeland S for later

Fair enough, it was admitedly a long shot. It could well be that they get their watches from the same supplier... I'm going to be ordering a 007 Aniversary watch from him so I can use the bezel and hands for my project watch.

Looking forward to seeing the next watch

Sorry, I dindn't get that

Sorry, Applewave is a dealer who sells low-end watches for about $40-60. Given the price and look of the Panerai, I wondered if that was who you'd bought it from. If you google his name, an auction site is one of the first results. They're the dealer who I bought my fiance's J12 and my 2531.80 project watch from. I've seen him get bad reviews on other forums, but I've found him (as a person) very nice and professional to do business with. Sure, the watches aren't fantatic, but for $60, I wasn't expecting a 1:1 rep

No, and you'll suffer even more ah ah

Here comes a Panerai GMT @ 33

Wow, impressive detail of knowledge on this subject.

What can I say, Bond is the reason I got interested in watches, and I've always wanted his watches I've got the same model Submariner as Dalton wore, and he was my favorite Bond until Brosnan took over, so an accurate 2531.80 is also a must. However, I still prefer the novels over the movies, so having the same watch that Bond had in the novels would be an ultimate goal. Thinking about it further, I suspect that the 6200 circa 1953 was what Fleming imagined Bond wearing for this reason: He was 100% specific in describing Bond's other 'things', be it cars, drink, food, guns, they were all described in indepth detail with no detail missed out. So, as written, "Rolex Oyster Perpetual" with "Large, luminous numbers", is precicely what the 6200 c 1953 is, and impossible to identify differently. It is a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, with large, luminous numbers. Now, admitedly, as the name Submariner was applied in 1955, Fleming could have known about them (if he was a watch enthusiast) but, given the detail he described everything else with, I think if he had meant it to be the 1955 vintage, he would have written "Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner".

Do any of our dealers have anything that comes close enough to mod into a relatively close rep of the 6200?

This is the closest available:

Correct dial, case that could take CG removal, correct crown, riveted bracelet, etc. I'd like to take on the project, but you would need at least a correct dial and case to start with.

C'mon, fellas. What would it take?

BP

I'd definitely want to take on the project, but there are some modifications from that available watch that would be essential.

First off, the dial. It should not have the Submariner name or depth rating. It must only say Rolex Oyster Perpetual.

Second, the bezel insert. Not only does it have no minute markers upto the 15 minute marker, the actual font of the numbers is very different to the font on contemporary bezel inserts. Chances are, this would have to be made as a run, or extremely lucky tracking down of original parts.

The bezel itself appears to have a true 'coin edge' rather than the scooped edge of the current bezel.

The case, not a problem. Have the crown guards ground off, and that would be that. Looking at the lower lugs of the c 1953, there are slight highlights on the outer sides where lug holes would be.

The crown might be harder to track down, or commision, as I haven't been able to find pictures which showed the crown end on...

Yes, you're devaluing the brand.

The 'value' of the brand is artificial. Prestige is nothing more than popularity of said brand. It does not actually make that product any better than another similar product.

I don't think we are taking money away from genuine brands. If people can afford gens they will buy them. I never thought of purchasing an expensive watch until I started buying reps. I am now considering the purchase of my first Breitling.

I don't think reps are taking money away from gen brands. Personally, I would not buy a gen watch even if I could afford to, because I do not feel they are worth that price, they are afterall, only a product manufactured to tell the time, so that is money the gen brand would never see. Does a gen Rolex keep better time than a rep Rolex? My Planet Ocean is no-where near the grade of accuracy as those available through the dealers here, but, in terms of an automatic time-keeper, it kept time to +6 seconds a day, so that is within COSC standards. So what does the extra price get? Certain specific details? I actually prefer the inaccuracies of my PO than the gen one, so why pay for details I don't actually like?...

You paid to promote it. If you're the kind of person that buys RL, you're a good advert. If you're the kind of person that buys fakes, you're devaluing it.

But either way, rep or gen, if a person is wearing a product with a brand name, they are still technically promoting that product. As an article on reps said, you can't really buy 'fake' watches anymore, where a Roley is a bit like a Rolex, but replicas which have recreated the details of the original, so even if someone is wearing a rep, to all intents and purposes, they are wearing and promoting the gen brand.

I agree, as I too would buy a Rolex, but how many times are people on these very forums steered away from buying a Rolex as it'll be assumed to be fake.

It depends on the situation. I advised someone not to buy a rep Rolex as a graduation present for his neice, because if she was called out as wearing a rep, it would devalue her gift. If an adult chooses to wear a rep, they run the risk of getting called out, and if they don't want to get called out, don't wear the watch. I read someone said that their boss bought a Rolex but his friends kept asking if it was a fake, so he got rid of it. This was a guy who collected vintage Ferraris. To think someone who can afford vintage cars could not afford a high end watch is just ludicrous. My reason for steering people away from Rolex is that I have found Omega watches to be better, in terms of dial visibility, having a well machined clasp, not flimsy stamped metal.

Nothing to do with it 'passing' as genuine, just looking at it purely as a better manufactured product.

And yes, the market isn't suffering, but how much better would it be without as many fakes as there are out there?

I suppose I'm saying that we, like people who pirate movies and music, should at least admit we're stealing a little. Don't try to hide the fact we're ripping these brands off, because we are.

Having said that, I'm looking which company to steal brand value from next. I can live with that.

Even if the reps didn't exist, the people who buy gens (for whatever reason) still would likely not buy a gen.

I agree, we are ripping the brands off, but, I feel that those gen brands are a rip off, so it's a vicious circle where someone somewhere is getting ripped off either way

I was wondering if someone would catch that. Yes... It is a hommage to the ol' shocker. I was thinking of blacking out the other crown points to turn it into the single finger salute, but I like it's current iteration the most.

I thought it might've been Definitely keep it as it is

One to add to the horror museum.

Here is my frankenstein FOLEX I built from a bunch of old junk parts...

And a pic of the dial in process of being blacked out...

That is awesome Is the blacking out of the Crown Logo a reference to 'the shocker'?

Yes, my mistake.

Wasn't trying to put your down or anything, I just wanted people to have the accurate info I would absolutley love a c 1953 Sub, but the one Andrew sells has the name and depth rating on the lower half of the dial, it has crown guards, and the bezel insert has contemporary markings (both indices up to the 15, and a different font for the numbers) I think tracking down a wholly accurate rep will be impossible, so it might be a case of getting one of Andrews and then extensively modding it...

[Edit to add]

The watch Sean wore, was Cubby Broccoli's own personal watch (as Rolex would not give them one for production and the budget would not run to purchassing one) However, this watch itself was by no means 'factory standard', as it had been serviced and apparently had parts from various models installed on it, which is why tracking down an identical watch is near impossible

Hi Paul,

These watch nomenclatures that collectors affectionately label their favorite watches with can vary depending on whom you're talking to What one person's definitive idea of what a Bond Sub is will most likely differ quite greatly from what another's opinion is on the matter (this discussion takes place on the vintage forums every so often).

The watch in question from Bob Maron is a 6538 Big Crown (8mm Brevet), which is what most collectors term as the definitive Bond Sub. I believe Sean Connery wore either a 6536 or 6538 in Goldfinger, which helped perpetuate the 'Bond' label of this watch. The 5508's and 5510's are also labeled as Bond Subs, but I believe the 6536/8's have more of a defining role with 007.

As for the watch on your wrist... That is a replica of the 5517 MilSub. Much different than the earlier Subs that are associated with James Bond.

Just to clarify, Sean wore a Submariner 6538. The Submariner for sale (with the numerals) is a 6200 circa 1955. The 6200 never appeared in any Bond movie, and was never identified by name in the novels. However, in OHMSS, (published in 1963) Fleming did describe Bond's watch as a "Rolex Oyster Perpetual," with "large, luminous numbers", which sounds very much like the 6200 which did have numbers on the dial, and would have been an 'established' watch by the time of writing (The 6200 circa 1953 did not have the name Submariner on the dial. The name was not applied untill 1955)

6200 Circa 1953:

6200 Circa 1955:

[Edit for clarity and to add pics]

I'm amazed at the number of people in here that think the original poster was serious.

Wow. Thin skin is not limited to the genuine community. Oh, wait....i knew that already cause I read Jaymoi's blathering posts and PMs.

Don't be so defensive guys.

Dude, it's not a case of me being defensive, it's a case of me having seen first hand precicely the kind of lengths trolls will go to get one over on their opponent. Reporting the names of the dealers here to the authorities is small fries compared to the effort that goes into stalking online image hosting and doing electoral role searches for people's names.

I fully accept that the post was a joke, I'm just saying that people doing that kind of thing need to be more mindfull of their actions with things like this. As has been pointed out many times, what we are involved with here is illegal, and could wind people in serious trouble if they were reported. All I'm saying, is that jokes might seem funny at first, but the consequences of them can be anything but funny. I like the community here, I like being able to get decent information on watches, and I like knowing that if I want something, then at least one of the dealers here will be able to get it for me. I do not want those things disappearing because some Paneristi gets their boxers in a bunch over a joke, and decides to come here and start reporting dealers. A joke's a joke, but with things like this, with the stakes involved, it is seriously not worth the risk of potentially ruining everything for everyone.

My brothers: the post over @ Paneristi was satire. Alittle too over the top--satire works best when nobody is 100% sure it's satire--but definitely a joke. My favorite post is the last one by the dopey Paneristi who's not quite sure if it's serious or not but he doesn't care 'cause he's outraged anyway.

As far as "keeping it professional" goes, this isn't my profession, it's my hobby...and that post over @ paneristi was pretty funny. Plus, I have too many PAMs to care whether or not the Paneristi PAC succeeds in shutting down PAM rep production in China.

Har Har, it's my hobby too, as well as the hobby of everyone else posting on this forum, don't be so pedantic. You might have all the *insert rep brand here* you want, but not everyone else has, so don't be so selfish and think that just because production getting shut down wouldn't bother you, it doesn't matter at all, because others might be very put out by it (particularly the dealers, for whom I suspect this is their profession).

Where you the OP of that post?

Have you ever seen or been on the receiving end of a troll attack? I'm not just talking about an inter-forum spat, but where people actually Google your username to find other forums you post on, and then post those search results on another forum as a way of embarrassing you? Or had your name searched through the electoral so someone can then post your personal details, and the details of your parents/spouse on a forum as a way of attacking you? Or had people track from a posted image back to your image hosting site so they can then post pictures of your partner on a forum so they can then mock them? I have seen it, so I know how these kind of people operate. What starts as a joke, can quickly escalate into something very personal, and very very nasty. Now, as I'm sure you're aware, in the US, all those things are actionable criminal attacks. In the UK, our laws haven't quite caught up with the 21st Century yet, so we just have to take it and ignore it, but that does not make it any less unpleasant for the victim, or any less dispicable on the part of the attacking troll.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or buzz-killer here, but just think for a minute. If Paneristi were to start coming here and reporting the dealers in retaliation for a juvenile trolling prank, and other members were no longer able to order watches because of that, do you think the OP of that prank would be very popular or welcome? Just think about it.

If this is a genuine Bond submariner ($65K on ebay) ...

then what the hell is this thing on my wrist?

Please school me on this. I want to learn. And I'd also like something that looks like the real deal!!!

Thanks for your patience.

Paul

The top Submariner is not a model that ever appeared in any Bond film. However, in the novel of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Fleming wrote that Bond wore a "Rolex Oyster Perpetual" with "large, luminous numbers." That might not have been the watch that was ever in the films, but I think it is probably what Fleming was thinking about when he wrote the novels.

I felt like a change today, so I put this on.

I've seen the results of forum trolling and seen the hassle it can cause, so glad as I am to find out that it was not some disgruntled rich kid, I do not condone the action in any way. It's a nice community here, if folks start trolling other gen forums to wind people up, they are going to react by coming here and most likely reporting the dealers, and then we will be screwed for sources of watches. What starts as fun can have serious consequences. Lets try and keep things as professional as possible here, that way, people on the gen forums are more likely to leave us be.

HE WAS SCREWING WITH THEM!

Wow, I thought they had no sense of humour.

Did you even read the line about

"instead of setting a bum on fire..."?

It can be hard to tell from text alone if someone is making a joke or not (even more so when people have no knowledge of the person's personality) I've encountered people like them online before, they're normally called trolls, and have serious emotional issues, which they try to hide by claiming their actions are 'just a joke'.

Why do these losers assume we buy reps because we cant afford the genuine?

Anyone with a job could find a way to get $3000 to spend if they really wanted to.

What a tool. I hope his pecker falls off.

In the case of that particular fruit, I'd say it's transference of self-loathing that their Panerai was a gift from their parents, and not the toil of their own labors I'm sure they'll get a reality check one day